Battery going flat

sue ellen

Free Member

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2
Hi.can anyone help me please? I own a campervan. I recently purchased a new vehicle battery but it keeps draining to empty. Could it be the alarm is draining it as this is the only thing constantly running ? But this seems like a hell of an inconvenience to have to keep topping it up/jumpstarting it. Any ideas anyone? thanks
 
An alarm is a possibility, but there are many others. How old is the camper? What is it? How long have you had it? Answers to these might help people offer better advice.
Unless it's really old, it could be a body control module (BCM) issue (it won't be this if your van doesn't have an OBD port). FWIW, we had similar with a 2004 VW Touran where the BCM was supposed to shut off power to almost everything a few minutes after shutting down and locking the car but didn't.
Another possibility is the radio -- particularly if it's aftermarket and been wired for use while camping (i.e. with the ignition off). Some such installations have a switch fitted to turn off power to the radio when you're not using the camper.
 
If you let the battery go flat then its not going to last long. It's not just the alarm and tracker that are running its the ECUs that control the vehicle. The only way to stop it is to remove the negative terminal on the battery. You will then have no alarm, central locking and you will have to reset the clock. It's a commercial vehicle and not expected to be left for long periods. You could add a solar panel to help keep the battery topped up or just take it out for a run every couple of weeks.
 
Thanks so much for replies. The van is 13 years old. It's a citroen relay . I really dont want to disengage the battery as I need the alarm on. im not sure what an OBD is ? can i check the radio in any way ? thanks again...any other ideas ? also how effective is the solar panel and how is it linked in to van eg is it though the cigar lighter?
 
Hi Sue

Welcome to the forum.

Any starter or engine battery will go flat fairly quickly, moreso in winter, so it needs to be charged, if you have it at home then use/buy the EHU cable to a socket no idea what setup you have of course, assuming it's not a self build, in which case you need to buy a decent smart charger to keep it topped up, I just bought the Ctek MXS5 for mine as it's losing it's charge.

OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics and is often called a OBD2 you can get a simple device like this which plugs into it and using an app can report all kinds of issues and sometimes turn the warning icons on the dash off, some can also monitor engine temp or revs etc, I use one called Torque, not the shape of the plug it fits into a matching socket so it is easily recognisable. Google will tell you where to find it on your vehicle.

Other OBD2 scanners are out there, the one below is not a reccomendation, juts the first one whch popped up in my google search

 
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sue ellen said:
Thanks so much for replies. The van is 13 years old. It's a citroen relay . I really dont want to disengage the battery as I need the alarm on. im not sure what an OBD is ? can i check the radio in any way ? thanks again...any other ideas ? also how effective is the solar panel and how is it linked in to van eg is it though the cigar lighter?
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what an obd port is/does will give you the background on what the port does. The garage or autoelectrician plugs their laptop into the port and can down load Fault Codes, including the dreaded Body Control Module [Ref something like 17892 or 18132, the Reader will display the Fault Code and the text 'Body Control Module Fault' Ref 17xxx or 18xxx, which basically means that the Airbag/Seatbelt ECU is gubbed. A Forum Member had theirs replaced within the last 2 weeks for around £450

Most M/Homes/Campervans suffer from a parasitic draw where the Alarm/Radio and any other electrical kit is drawing current constantly, even with everything switched off [especially if some Aftermarket additions have been added!]. The amount of parasitic charge will vary with the level and type of kit your Van has installed. An autoelectrician should be able to check for you and possibly correct any clumsy electrical installations [we had a radio/rear camera where the 2 live feeds had been crossed, causing the vehicle battery to backfeed current from Vehicle to Leisure Battery until the autoelectrician corrected it]

The Vehicle Battery shoud be changed every 5 years [or 3 years if it's a cheap brand], so your Van might be overdue a Battery Replacement, especially if the Flat Battery problem is a recent event, tied in to the current Cold Snap. We changed our Vehicle Battery in November 2021 [and the new Battery was faulty!] and the replacement new Battery was draining in less than a week, because of the parasitic drain and backfeed problem. Even after that, a new [so 3rd battery, just to keep count!], more powerful Yuasa battery would lose power relatively quickly, so I took the M/Home out every 5 or 6 days for a 25 mile run to stop problems in the Scottish Winter, rather than 'every couple of weeks'

We have a solar panel and asked David of Wildebus [Forum Member] to fit a Battery Conditioner/Charger [Ablemail AMT12-2] 12 months ago almost to the day. This can be set manually to force the Leisure Battery to supply current to the Vehicle Battery for 9 seconds in every 10 seconds to keep the Vehicle Battery healthy. The solar panel then replenishes the Leisure Battery [even in the Scottish Winter!] to keep the cycle going, and it has enabled us to leave the M/Home parked up for 3-4 weeks at a time without a problem. David is a very knowledgable individual who will be able to tell you what would best suit your needs [lots of Forum Members get his advice/kit/fitting!] so stump up £15 for an annual Forum subscription, and talk to him! Compared to what I spent getting my backfeed problem repaired and then corrected, you'll probably recoup the cost of membership on dealing with your flat battery problem!

Good luck!

Steve
 
We recently had a similar issue with our 2018 relay van. Took it to an autoelectrician who, after three hours testing, identified the parasitic drain as from the alarm. We disconnected it and battery has no drain now. Not always sensible to disconnect the alarm though, so we also have a 10w solar panel which connects to the van through the obd socket (I never knew what this was either :ROFLMAO: ) The panel was about £20 then a lead to plug into OBD was another £15. Seems to work fine with the panel propped inside the windscreen.
 
We picked up our fiat auto trail 5 months ago,
Like most autotrail it has a issue with engine battery droping always seems to be sitting in morning around 12.1/12.3 this was before the cold weather .So after much research I opted to bypass the sargent ec500 smart charger and wired the factory fitted solar system direct to said battery. With new mppt regulator.
All good last time I checked it was sitting at 12.7 in morning, I've not looked at van now for 4 weeks. Be interesting to see how it's doing.
My early conclusion was something to do with ec500 system and alarm takes some overnight power.

Screenshot_20230103_064337_Gallery.jpg
 
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Would there be any benifit in taking cables from the load side of the MPPT controller to the VB?
 
trevskoda said:
Votronic does that, hence 4 wires, 1 amp to starter, rest to hab battery.
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Yes I'd read that recently Trev but I was asking about a run of the mill MPPT controller that only has 3+ & 3- ports, yonks ago on facts it was always a question that never got properly answered when anyone asked what the load terminals were there for, if charging the VB was a viable option why did so many have a flat VB
 
Pudsey Bear said:
Yes I'd read that recently Trev but I was asking about a run of the mill MPPT controller that only has 3+ & 3- ports, yonks ago on facts it was always a question that never got properly answered when anyone asked what the load terminals were there for, if charging the VB was a viable option why did so many have a flat VB
Click to expand...
You would have to check individual controllers. The ones I have seen would just end up linking leisure bank and starter battery together. Unless you can alter settings/set time active it would power up 24/7 until leisure battery flat
 
nabsim said:
You would have to check individual controllers. The ones I have seen would just end up linking leisure bank and starter battery together. Unless you can alter settings/set time active it would power up 24/7 until leisure battery flat
Click to expand...
It's not for me, just a wondering, like ya do.

Like how many watts in a 110ah x 12v battery? the sums = 1320w but obviously not usable, so wondered how much you could use.

Say 12.6v is fully charged, & 12v is flat, you only have 0.6v to play with which is only 66w, but that can't be right.

So talking ballcocks, but some more clevery type peeps would be able to figure it out
 
Pudsey Bear said:
Yes I'd read that recently Trev but I was asking about a run of the mill MPPT controller that only has 3+ & 3- ports, yonks ago on facts it was always a question that never got properly answered when anyone asked what the load terminals were there for, if charging the VB was a viable option why did so many have a flat VB
Click to expand...
Be hard to give a definitive answer as different controllers will be wired internally in different ways.
But there are some real potential gotchas if you were to connect a normal LOAD output on a solar controller to a vehicle battery ...

The LOAD purpose is meant to be an output only. If you connected a Starter Battery to it, then you are providing a power source into the LOAD. Will that matter? well, I would think it would depend on how the controller is designed. It may, or it may not. Who knows for the specific controller fitted.
When starting, it might try and draw a highish current through the load terminal (in a similar way as drawing current through a bi-directional split-charge relay). Depending on how the controller is designed, it might blow a fuse, it might damage the circuit, or it might just cut out to save itself (the Victron MPPT Load circuit for example is current limited and it will disconnect when over-current to protect itself).
Putting a fuse on the Cable going to the Vehicle Battery may or may not be good enough to protect the electronics of the Controller (depends on the type of fuse and the electronics).
I would not recommend anyone do this without knowing more about how their load circuit works, and it is unlikely they will be able to find out without a destructive test.

Now I HAVE used the LOAD output to drive a charge to the Vehicle Battery - but this was purely to take advantage of the remote control of the LOAD output via the Victron App and I actually used an Ablemail AMT12 between the Controller and the Leisure Battery which took control of the current passing through the it.
But a direct connection? I wouldn't!
 
wildebus said:
Be hard to give a definitive answer as different controllers will be wired internally in different ways.
But there are some real potential gotchas if you were to connect a normal LOAD output on a solar controller to a vehicle battery ...

The LOAD purpose is meant to be an output only. If you connected a Starter Battery to it, then you are providing a power source into the LOAD. Will that matter? well, I would think it would depend on how the controller is designed. It may, or it may not. Who knows for the specific controller fitted.
When starting, it might try and draw a highish current through the load terminal (in a similar way as drawing current through a bi-directional split-charge relay). Depending on how the controller is designed, it might blow a fuse, it might damage the circuit, or it might just cut out to save itself (the Victron MPPT Load circuit for example is current limited and it will disconnect when over-current to protect itself).
Putting a fuse on the Cable going to the Vehicle Battery may or may not be good enough to protect the electronics of the Controller (depends on the type of fuse and the electronics).
I would not recommend anyone do this without knowing more about how their load circuit works, and it is unlikely they will be able to find out without a destructive test.

Now I HAVE used the LOAD output to drive a charge to the Vehicle Battery - but this was purely to take advantage of the remote control of the LOAD output via the Victron App and I actually used an Ablemail AMT12 between the Controller and the Leisure Battery which took control of the current passing through the it.
But a direct connection? I wouldn't!
Click to expand...
Thank you David for an answer that even an electricity thick bugger like me could grasp.
 
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The load is for lights etc and is diode protected in some units, it is a smooth output and not for charging batts, a link from service to starter bat is best and use heavy cables and 200ah relay, this then can also be used as an emergency jump start, mine is used to make the alt charge all batts up when driving as well.
Solar is with the votronic duel which charges all when stopped and the switch knocked off.
200ah relay.png
 
If your van is on hook up get one of these, I have had the problem with several vans this costs about £20 on eBay never a problem now.

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I wouldn't want to put the health of my battery in anything I didn't trust, I went for the Ctek MSX5 it does a bit more than float charge it'll try to recondition them too, checked mine off charge yesterday and it's holding @ 12.6-12.8v for three days so far.

 
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