Can I carry a 50cc scooter on a rack? Can somebody help me calculate please?

[Deleted member 2546]

I have my mclouis Lagan 410 on 54 plate.
Most of the trips away now are just me and the little one and we feel a 50cc scooter would suit us better than the pedal bikes.
I have tried to calculate it but it’s very complicated - can somebody help please?

 

[Deleted member 2546]

Ok, so I need a weighbridge?
I’ll try and get weighed before Hollingworth lake
Thanks

 

[Molly 3]

I take it you are considering carrying it on rear mounted bike rack ? Their will be a a max capacity load for van and rack on my van it is 70 kg enough for 2 electric bikes .

 

[Minisorella]

Another thought is that different bike racks have different maximum load limits. Mine takes 60kg for instance but some hold much less.

 

[Bikesurf]

I have just been through this with my Burstner Travel Van and Honda Cub. The local weighbridge has been very helpful and showed me I am very close to limit. They say you have a 5% tolerance but you take the risk that authorities abroad may not be so lenient. Set up picture attached. I now have dedicated handlebar straps.

 

[Erictheviking]

Having spent a number of years in traffic enforcement I know how this works. You only have a 5% tolerance if the vehicle wasn't overload at the point of loading. The tolerance is to account for weather conditions, where the load weight increases due to rainwater etc. (open loose loads, sand, gravel etc) Many enforcement officers will allow the 5% but some will not, especially abroad so beware, they will make you unload at the roadside to the max weight (MGW or MGM) as shown on the VIN plate and whack you with a hefty fine.

As has been said take the van to the weighbridge fully loaded ready to go and see what it comes in at. Alternatively weigh it with just fuel,tools and essentials, that way you'll know what payload you can add. Be very aware of overloading the rear axle.
A lot of motorhomes are very close to their limit before you begin to add passenger etc. My 6 berth Fiat Ducato Knaus - fully winterised, was plated as 3500kg and when I put it on the weighbridge for a week away with just 2 of us, clothes, 2 pushbikes and 50 ltrs of water we came in at 3800kg! Now been uprated to 4000kg,easy as the Alco chassis was rated as that and I already had heavy duty tyres. Emptied of everything apart from basic vehicle kit it weighs 3480kg!

I tow my motorcycle on a collapsible trailer.

Good luck and happy travels.

 

[Millie Master]

It never ceases to amaze me when I see a scooter mounted on a towing bracket on the back of a panel van conversion where the bracket itself has a maximum download of (say) 70kgs.! I have also seen as many as 4 quite hefty bikes mounted onto similar brackets which are so wide that they totally cover the rear lights of the vehicle they are mounted on!!

 

[Millie Master]

Before on a rack and now in the garage

But how do you tie it rigidly and exceptionally securely down in the garage *****?

I have seen the aftermath of an accident where a motorhome was in an accident, it wouldn't have been a serious incident if it hadn't been for the fact that the motorbike that had been (inadequately) lashed down in the garage, had come quite literally flying through the van!!
It was not a very nice sight to see I can assure you.

 

[Llantarnam]

Hi
Just purchase an easylifter motorbike carrier . Classed as a rack , can carry 250 kg , 70 %of the weight is on the carriers wheels .
Rob

 

[tugboat]

When carrying a bike or scoot on a rack and using tie down straps, don't forget that the suspension can compress as the van goes over bumps, allowing the straps to loosen. This could allow hooks or loops to disengage.

I always put wooden blocks on top of the wheels, purposely made to fit the gap, then crank the rarchet straps to pull the bike down and tighten ontothe blocks.

That way the suspension will not compress further.

 

[nabsim]

The wheels are in the wooden cradle which can be seen in the photographs, and a heavy duty ratchet strap goes over and around the base of the scooter.
The oven and fridge would come forward first!

That’s why we always used to tie our bikes down when on side stand on ferries rather than main stand. Didn’t matter with my sidecar outfits though but you would need a big garage and masses of free pa6load to carry that in a van garage

Sorry I quoted wrong post, it was the one about suspension I meant to qoute

 

[nabsim]

Double post deleted, think I need to go and lie down in a dark room

 

[nabsim]

Earlier this year, we did consider selling the scooter, as I am a little afraid of an accident and hurting Kath.
But we didn't and the scooter was invaluable for doctor, hospital, and pharmacy visits. It would have been quite difficult without and costly!

I would have one if it was only me but don’t want to drop it with Caz on the back. Was thinking of one of those MP3 type scooters with the parallelogram front end but would have to get a trailer for it if I did so not bothering. You keep on as long as you can matey ?

 

[nabsim]

If you have to tow a trailer, you might as well have a quad, or a box trailer if you need more carrying capacity!

Exactly, although I could then go up to a Fouco 900cc

Would have to win lotto first though unforunately

 

[barryd]

All you need is this calculator at the bottom of this article. https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/30435-safe-loading-and-payloads

Thats what I used when I fitted my rack in 2008. I had my rack fitted by Armitage Trailers in Ferrybridge. http://www.armitagetrailers.com/scooterrackpage.htm Ive yet to see a better and easier set up. Dead quick to take off or put on (less than a minute). Just two straps and a bar over the seat.

There are very few vans that can take the weight of a scooter legally though on a rack. Its the main reason I have hung on to mine so long. The biggest killer is the length of the overhang in the calculation which is often why long wheel base Alko Chassis with a shorter overhang like on the Kontiki are best. Doesnt effect the handling of the van either as it can on shorter wheel base and long overhang vans. The Arimitage rack (Well mine at least) is fitted into the Chassis and does not rely on the tow balls weight limits either.

If you can though go for a 100 to 125 rather than a 50cc.

 

[Deleted member 2546]

Update to this post - we already have an Armitage towbar fitted, it can take 50kg on the towball so not enough for anything really. It can tow a trailer of 1600kg so I can tow quite a bit, but that’s what put me off a caravan and why we got the motorhome in the first place.
I have a Fiamma bike rack on the back so after Christmas we are going to look for 2 e-bikes that will go on the rack.

Thanks for all responses Merry Christmas everybody x

 

[barryd]

Update to this post - we already have an Armitage towbar fitted, it can take 50kg on the towball so not enough for anything really. It can tow a trailer of 1600kg so I can tow quite a bit, but that’s what put me off a caravan and why we got the motorhome in the first place.
I have a Fiamma bike rack on the back so after Christmas we are going to look for 2 e-bikes that will go on the rack.

Thanks for all responses Merry Christmas everybody x

Like I said if you go for an Armitage rack then its not dependent on the tow ball, they fit it into the chassis. My rack is rated to be able to take 200kg, the van cannot legally or sensibly take that weight though. About 100kg or so is my limit. I would do the sums based on the calculator I posted earlier then give Armitage a call or drop them an email with your vans details and see what they suggest. They are pretty clued up and will have probably fitted a rack to your van model if its doable.

 

[Olliekuma]

That’s why we always used to tie our bikes down when on side stand on ferries rather than main stand. Didn’t matter with my sidecar outfits though but you would need a big garage and masses of free pa6load to carry that in a van garage

Sorry I quoted wrong post, it was the one about suspension I meant to qoute

 

[Olliekuma]

I have carried many bikes , scooters and motorcycles and regarding the latter I play safe and use a dedicated motorcycle trailer that is built for the job. This obviously lengthens the unit and requires a ball hitch and of course adds cost on ferries but safety has to be considered here.

 

[hairydog]

If you want to add a scooter on a rack, you need to calculate the load it will add to the back axle.
So you need to do some calculations.
You need to know the current fully-loaded weight on the front and back axles. So a trip to the weighbridge is essential.
You also need to know the weight of the scooter and the rack*.
Armed with these weights, you also need to find the wheelbase (if necessary, measure it) and measure how far behind the back axle the middle of the scooter will be when on the rack.
Then comes the maths:
The entire weight of the scooter and axle will be doing two things:
1. It will be pushing down on the back axle
2. It will be lifting the front axle like a see-saw over the back axle.
The lift effort off the front axle is the same as the downforce at the back, divided by the wheelbase, multiplied by the overhang.
The extra weight taken off the front axle will all be added to the load on the back axle.
These numbers are chosen for ease of maths, not because they're the most likely.
Assume a 7.4 metre motorhome that has a 5 metre wheelbase, 2 tonnes front axle load, 3 tonne rear axle load. The scooter will be 3 metres behind the back axle.
Adding a 500Kg scooter and rack will add 500 Kg to the back axle and at the same time lift the load off the front axle by 500 Kg * 3 (overhang) / 5 (wheelbase)
So it will reduce the front axle load by 300Kg, which means it will increase the back axle weight by 800Kg.
New back axle load 3.8 tonnes, new front axle load 1.7 tonnes.
*Some of the rack weight will be nearer the axle, but best leave that as a margin for error in weighing.