Cheaper lithium battery's

Molly 3

Molly 3

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As lifepo4 have dropped in price and more members are using them as drop in replacement , are they as plug and play as as they are advertised or have you had to make modifications to your system's to make it work for you ,are some system's like sargent and cbe more friendly to drop in lithiam battery's , i know my 2 battery's aren't going to last much longer at 4 years old , lithiam is becoming more affordable as a drop in option .but could be put of if instalation and cost is expensive. Alpha batterys are advertising very affordable lifepo4 batterys .
 
Molly 3 said:
As lifepo4 have dropped in price and more members are using them as drop in replacement , are they as plug and play as as they are advertised or have you had to make modifications to your system's to make it work for you ,are some system's like sargent and cbe more friendly to drop in lithiam battery's , i know my 2 battery's aren't going to last much longer at 4 years old , lithiam is becoming more affordable as a drop in option .but could be put of if instalation and cost is expensive. Alpha batterys are advertising very affordable lifepo4 batterys .
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The closest to genuinely affordable plug and play Lithiums I have seen would be the Poweroad Infinity SubZeros.

Reasons:
You need a proper battery monitor with lithiums as using voltage levels to determine charge level is doable with lead, but just doesn't cut it with Lithium. The Poweroad Infinity range have a built in monitor accessible via Bluetooth which while not taking the place of a proper battery monitor that ALL systems would benefit from, will do the job, and better than a voltmeter with Lead Acid would do.

If you try and charge a lithium battery when it is cold (below around zero), depending on the BMS (Battery Management System) fitted to the battery, it will either be damaged as it allows it to charge regardless, or you cannot recharge the battery until it warms up. The Infinity Subzero allows charging down to -20C (by using internal heating pads), so you don't have to worry about that aspect.

Systems like Sargents are probably undersized in terms of charging capabilities. One of the major benefits of Lithium Batteries is their ability to recharge very fast. The typical motorhome charging system (both on Mains or Alternator Split Charge) is too weak to make the best of them, so I would say you would really need to get a new Mains Charger and/or Split Charge system to get the best value from them, but probably ok to use what is fitted as an interim.
 
The high charge current of lithium batteries is a potential failure-fire risk when charging them with old onboard mains chargers.
The batteries (particularly if more than one) will run the charger at its maximum capacity for a significant period of time which may be more than it can take.
The north wales firm we dare not mention raised this an issue some time ago and advised taking extra precautions.
So do check out the capacity and capability of your onboard mains charger before investing.
It's no problem getting a high capacity modern mains charger but it may be another not inconsidersble expense to factor in.
 
wildebus said:
The closest to genuinely affordable plug and play Lithiums I have seen would be the Poweroad Infinity SubZeros.

Reasons:
You need a proper battery monitor with lithiums as using voltage levels to determine charge level is doable with lead, but just doesn't cut it with Lithium. The Poweroad Infinity range have a built in monitor accessible via Bluetooth which while not taking the place of a proper battery monitor that ALL systems would benefit from, will do the job, and better than a voltmeter with Lead Acid would do.

If you try and charge a lithium battery when it is cold (below around zero), depending on the BMS (Battery Management System) fitted to the battery, it will either be damaged as it allows it to charge regardless, or you cannot recharge the battery until it warms up. The Infinity Subzero allows charging down to -20C (by using internal heating pads), so you don't have to worry about that aspect.

Systems like Sargents are probably undersized in terms of charging capabilities. One of the major benefits of Lithium Batteries is their ability to recharge very fast. The typical motorhome charging system (both on Mains or Alternator Split Charge) is too weak to make the best of them, so I would say you would really need to get a new Mains Charger and/or Split Charge system to get the best value from them, but probably ok to use what is fitted as an interim.
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Thanks for your comments , the poweroad is on my wish list ,the 150 amp would be tempting £50 more than 100 amp infinity ,
 
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Molly 3 said:
Thanks for your comments , the poweroad is on my wish list ,the 150 amp would be tempting same price as 100 amp infinity ,
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If it's of any interest, you could have a look at my thread on the motorhomebuilder site here -
https://motorhomebuilder.com/threads/turbo-charging-motorhome-electrics.67127/
It covers what I did when fitting 300Ah of Lead Carbon batteries (which have quite similar properties to Lithium in terms of charging speeds) in my Autotrail Motorhome fitted with a Sargent 325/328 PDU.
I would have gone for the Poweroad Infinity Subzero except the budget didn't allow it. If I DID go for Lithiums, my install would have remained exactly the same except for the actual batteries.
 
Markd said:
It's no problem getting a high capacity modern mains charger but it may be another not inconsidersble expense to factor in.
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But would you really need one if you were on EHU overnight? Unless you used it instead of a B2B?
 
Probably not unless travel time between heavy depletion and hook up is short.
Even then you need a good B2B to thump the charge in as fast as the batteries will take it.
As Wildebus says the 10A mains charger in his Motorhome was nowhere near good enough.
 
wildebus said:
If it's of any interest, you could have a look at my thread on the motorhomebuilder site here -
https://motorhomebuilder.com/threads/turbo-charging-motorhome-electrics.67127/
It covers what I did when fitting 300Ah of Lead Carbon batteries (which have quite similar properties to Lithium in terms of charging speeds) in my Autotrail Motorhome fitted with a Sargent 325/328 PDU.
I would have gone for the Poweroad Infinity Subzero except the budget didn't allow it. If I DID go for Lithiums, my install would have remained exactly the same except for the actual batteries.
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Led carbon is not an option as it would proberbly overload my weight limit .I have sargent 328 .thanks i will checkout you post bazz
 
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Markd said:
Probably not unless travel time between heavy depletion and hook up is short.
Even then you need a good B2B to thump the charge in as fast as the batteries will take it.
As Wildebus says the 10A mains charger in his Motorhome was nowhere near good enough.
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I
As I understand wildebus has sargent 328 25 amp charger same as my van. Perhaps he will coment?.
 
Molly 3 said:
I
As I understand wildebus has sargent 328 25 amp charger same as my van. Perhaps he will coment?.
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I have the 325/328 (I quote both as the box says 325, the display say 328 and I know it got sent to Sargent for repair in the past and they apparently upgrade the 325 on repairs? So probably the 328).
I know it is rated in the specs as a 25A unit, but I found it only put out a maximum of 10A either on EHU or Split Charge, which is really too low for a bigger battery bank, so I have bypassed that for both split and EHU charging. I don't kn ow why mine was limited compared to the official specs, but as I was always intending to bypass the charger, it was not something I looked into further.
What I can still use the built-in charger on the unit for however is to give the starter battery a proper multi-stage charge when on EHU by selecting the Starter Battery on the control panel (the Multiplus still charges the Leisure Bank regardless).
 
wildebus said:
Every two years? what a PITA! Spend a bit more, get some decent batteries and you can keep them for a hell of a lot longer than that :)
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No thanks cheapo for me..
When lithium are £200/£300 I mite be tempted..
 
Mr and Mrs Tupcox said:
No thanks cheapo for me..
When lithium are £200/£300 I mite be tempted..
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who said Lithiums? you can get 200Ah of Lead Carbon for under £380 with a charge lifecycle of 8,000 cycles at the kind of use your cheapos can cope with.
Once you do your first replacement after 2 years you are running at a loss, plus all the hassle of changing them ...


But ... wastes yer money, takes yer choice ;)
 
Molly 3 said:
Was it straight forward fit plug n play or did you make changes to to your system in any way ?.
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I had a victron Smart solar and I changed the mains charger and fitted a B2B, all Victron plus a raspberrypi running Venus os to keep me informed as to what the charging system is doing. It was lockdown after all!
However I do believe that it could be a drop in replacement unless you have a smart alternator.
 
wildebus said:
who said Lithiums? you can get 200Ah of Lead Carbon for under £380 with a charge lifecycle of 8,000 cycles at the kind of use your cheapos can cope with.
Once you do your first replacement after 2 years you are running at a loss, plus all the hassle of changing them ...


But ... wastes yer money, takes yer choice ;)
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Been full timing on cheapos for 6 years I would agree they have had a rest this year.. .😂😂😂 you wont convince me...
 
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