Citroen Relay battery light

[linkshouse]

Any thoughts on this by you wise owls?

I thought the van had a smart alternator and this was why it wasn’t triggering my VSR but came to realise that it wasn’t smart at all it was just duff! The output voltage rarely got above about 12.6V

We fitted a new alternator this morning and it appears to be working fine. The output voltage is 14.3V as below.



I’ve also checked on the leisure battery monitor, loaded it up by turning on a few lights so that I could see that it was discharging at around 1.5A, sttarted the nine and it changed to charging at around 4.5A so the alternator is definitely delivering charge.

But...

After running for a few seconds the battery light comes on. If I restart the engine, it stay off again for a wee while but then comes back on. All the while my OrionSmart charger shows to be charging with the correct voltages.

Any thoughts/suggestions.

Thanks

Phill

 

[snapster]

Just a thought, does the light go out if you rev the engine? Just thinking the belt may be slipping when the load on the alternator increases just after starting.

 

[The laird]

Earth points ok?

 

[linkshouse]

Just a thought, does the light go out if you rev the engine? Just thinking the belt may be slipping when the load on the alternator increases just after starting.

No. The light is off initially, but comes on after a few seconds.

As a further experiment I left the fridge on (compressor fridge powered via an inverter) overnight to drain the LB bank a bit. In the morning the LBs were at 96.4%, and the vehicle battery voltage was 12.8. Went for a short run of approx 10 miles and then checked their status about Ten minutes after stopping the engine and the vehicle battery was 12.9v and the leisure bank was 100%.

 

[linkshouse]

Earth points ok?

I’ve checked everything that was disturbed. Unfortunately the weather has turned bad now so I cant do much more for the time being.

 

[xsilvergs]

Well going back 40 years when I repaired Lucas alternators in my lunch break. If I remember correctly the light came on because current flowed through the filament to ground at the alternator. When the alternator produced a voltage ~ equal to that applied to the filament via the ignition switch the light went out.

So if the light is illuminated, is it getting an earth it shouldn't have?

This is going back 40 years so the technology may have changed.

 

[linkshouse]

Well going back 40 years when I repaired Lucas alternators in my lunch break. If I remember correctly the light came on because current flowed through the filament to ground at the alternator. When the alternator produced a voltage ~ equal to that applied to the filament via the ignition switch the light went out.

So if the light is illuminated, is it getting an earth it shouldn't have?

This is going back 40 years so the technology may have changed.

I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think this set up is quite the same.

I’m thinking the light feed must come from some slightly more intelligent system as it doesn‘t come on when I turn the ignition on, nor does it ever light dimly as they used to, it is completely off initially, then turns on at full brightness after approx two or three seconds of the engine running, it then stays on throughout the journey. Monitoring the vehicle battery voltage via the Orion Smart B2B (input voltage) it does go up and down a little as I drive but alway stays above around 13.5v.

On the face of it, everything seems to be working as it should, except of course the battery light!

 

[xsilvergs]

I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think this set up is quite the same.

I’m thinking the light feed must come from some slightly more intelligent system as it doesn‘t come on when I turn the ignition on, nor does it ever light dimly as they used to, it is completely off initially, then turns on at full brightness after approx two or three seconds of the engine running, it then stays on throughout the journey. Monitoring the vehicle battery voltage via the Orion Smart B2B (input voltage) it does go up and down a little as I drive but alway stays above around 13.5v.

On the face of it, everything seems to be working as it should, except of course the battery light!

From my 40 year old experience I would look for a stray/partial ground on the ignition switch side of the light. Turn the ignition on and there's never enough current to light the filament because it finds an earth first. The alternator starts to charge, current passes from it through the filament to earth.

Dashboard problem?

 

[linkshouse]

Thank you, I do appreciate your advice.

I’ll have a look once the weather allows.

The only thing against the dashboard scenario is that this has only come up since changing the alternator.

 

[xsilvergs]

Thank you, I do appreciate your advice.

I’ll have a look once the weather allows.

The only thing against the dashboard scenario is that this has only come up since changing the alternator.

Faulty alternator?

 

[wildebus]

Does the light got off if you pull the little green plug out the Victron B2B.

If so (and I suspect it will) it does sound like a faulty Alternator.

 

[linkshouse]

Faulty alternator?

It’s a new one so I hope not!

 

[linkshouse]

Does the light got off if you pull the little green plug out the Victron B2B.

If so (and I suspect it will) it does sound like a faulty Alternator.

I’ll try that in a wee while as the rain has finally stopped, the wind dropped, and the sun is trying its best

That said I hope I isn’t a faulty alternator, as it is brand new. I suppose the other thing to say is that at least this one is being correctly detected by the Orion Smart and charging the leisure bank. The old one never really got above about 12.6V.

 

[linkshouse]

@wildebus - Further to my last post, I’ve been out just now and tried unplugging the green plug from the Victron unit and it did the make any difference. I know this doesn’t solve my problem but I’m glad - I think

I should add that my earlier assertion that the light came on after a couple of seconds and actually it is nearer 10 - 15.

I‘m guessing your thinking was that it was coming on when the Victron unit activated and loaded up the alternator. To look a bit further at this I put the plug back in and launched the phone app so that I could monitor the charger. The charger was off due to engine shutdown detection. Then I started the engine after a few seconds the charger turned on then a few seconds later the battery light came on.

I wondered if this was a delayed response by the alternator to the charger load so... I stopped the engine and the Victron carried on charging due to the shutdown delay, I’m thinking therefore the charger load would still be present. I restarted the engine before 5he Victron shut down and there was still the same delay before the battery light came on.

I’m sorry I know I may be over thinking this.

 

[linkshouse]

I had thought to investigate voltages a bit further.

My plan was to check the voltage at the alternator output terminal wrt the alternator body so I could see what was actually coming out.

Slight problem, short body and short arms! I can feel the alternator terminal with my finger tips but can I heck get the meter crocodile clip onto it! One for our son next time he’s this way.

Plus, it’s suddenly clouded over and looks like rain again any time now - blumming Orkney weather!

 

[wildebus]

@wildebus - Further to my last post, I’ve been out just now and tried unplugging the green plug from the Victron unit and it did the make any difference. I know this doesn’t solve my problem but I’m glad - I think

I should add that my earlier assertion that the light came on after a couple of seconds and actually it is nearer 10 - 15.

I‘m guessing your thinking was that it was coming on when the Victron unit activated and loaded up the alternator. To look a bit further at this I put the plug back in and launched the phone app so that I could monitor the charger. The charger was off due to engine shutdown detection. Then I started the engine after a few seconds the charger turned on then a few seconds later the battery light came on.

I wondered if this was a delayed response by the alternator to the charger load so... I stopped the engine and the Victron carried on charging due to the shutdown delay, I’m thinking therefore the charger load would still be present. I restarted the engine before 5he Victron shut down and there was still the same delay before the battery light came on.

I’m sorry I know I may be over thinking this.

There is a few seconds before B2B chargers come on (a mechanical relay such as a VSR is instant).
I am not sure if your reply in the first line was a "yes" or a "no" (I think it was that it didn't make any difference?).

It is not unusual that an alternator seems fine but as soon as you add a split-charge setup, the battery light comes on as that extra load is the last straw for the batteries camel (to macerate a metaphor there) and the Alternator was on its last legs but the owner didn't know (slightly awkward when you have just installed a setup for someone and they think you broke their van until you explain it to them).
Shouldn't happen on a brand-new alternator though of course.

I would be inclined to disable the B2B (via the green plug or Victron Connect) and see what the battery light does generally. Also when it comes on, rev the engine a bit and see if it goes off.
Then repeat with the B2B active.
Maybe it is just a bad connection on the light and nothing to do with the alternator at all, but I think you need to take the B2B out the picture to get a better understanding before possibly having the discussion with the Alternator supplier or Garage, to avoid going down the wrong rabbit hole.

 

[linkshouse]

There is a few seconds before B2B chargers come on (a mechanical relay such as a VSR is instant).
I am not sure if your reply in the first line was a "yes" or a "no" (I think it was that it didn't make any difference?).

It is not unusual that an alternator seems fine but as soon as you add a split-charge setup, the battery light comes on as that extra load is the last straw for the batteries camel (to macerate a metaphor there) and the Alternator was on its last legs but the owner didn't know (slightly awkward when you have just installed a setup for someone and they think you broke their van until you explain it to them).
Shouldn't happen on a brand-new alternator though of course.

I would be inclined to disable the B2B (via the green plug or Victron Connect) and see what the battery light does generally. Also when it comes on, rev the engine a bit and see if it goes off.
Then repeat with the B2B active.
Maybe it is just a bad connection on the light and nothing to do with the alternator at all, but I think you need to take the B2B out the picture to get a better understanding before possibly having the discussion with the Alternator supplier or Garage, to avoid going down the wrong rabbit hole.

Will do. It’s easy done as I have a changeover switch (VSR/B2B).

With the Leisure batteries starting off very nearly fully charged and no other significant load I would hope that the alternator isn’t overloaded.

I do have a DC clip on ammeter so will see what current the alternator is delivering when I can get to it (I can‘t reach it plus, as I suspected, it has started raining).

Thank you, and everyone else, for your patience and help.

 

[jak]

Hi linkshouse did you get to the bottom of your alternator issue, I have a Citroen 2lt 2017 and thinking if putting dc to dc in.

 

[linkshouse]

Hi linkshouse did you get to the bottom of your alternator issue, I have a Citroen 2lt 2017 and thinking if putting dc to dc in.

I’m afraid not. In all respects, except the battery light, everything is working fine.

If I run my leisure batteries down quite a bit, then when I start the engine the trsmart bulk charges at around 17 amps. The vehicle battery is getting charged okay.

I’m a bit OCD with the victron app, regularly checking the B2B, solar, and battery bank status so have ended up just ignoring the dashboard warning light.

 

[jak]

Many thanks for the reply. I think I'll plod on and fit one. I'm also a bit OCD regarding battery values both starter and leisure. constantly checking. Wish I could get a battery monitor over WiFi to to more checking away from van.