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Electric cars

nabsim

Full Member

Messages
1,883
I think it is more about the fact that a clean electric car has had to have a diesel van towing either a diesel or petrol generator has had to come to charge the vehicle up so it can continue with its zero omissions journey
It isn’t a generator, it’s a lithium battery pack, ruffled a few feathers on some Facebook sites lol
 

snapster

Full Member

Messages
289
Of course, it could have been an electrically powered van towing the battery!
But.....
The main reason for using an electric car is so that it doesn’t pollute the area it is being driven in.

There are huge potential pollution issues though, the actual production of the car itself ( including the running of the factories that produce the parts and assemble the vehicle), battery pack and running, maintenance and manufacture of the electricity generating equipment, has to produce less pollution than the way internal combustion vehicles are produced and powered now.

And, of course, disposal of used batteries has to be clean.
Increased use of electric vehicles will need more electricity to be produced as well as the infrastructure to charge these vehicles at home, work and everywhere else they travel.
When all these factors are taken into account and the electric car is proven to cause less pollution, then it will be a winner.

Till then, I’m just going to be a little sceptical about an all electric world.
 

Trotter

Full Member

Messages
1,277
Having problems getting my head around this electric vehicle business. I saw a video on YouTube on the Fiat Ducato Electric van . An operating range of 90 miles. Enough perhaps for urban deliveries, possibilities of a recharge during drivers rest period. That doesn’t help in our situation. A normal recreational trip would probably be significantly further than 90 miles. Solar would only bring in so much. So what’s the alternative, a generator? Maybe ehu on site, if your able to get that far.
Me thinks, someone has a lot of work to do to replace the internal combustion engine.
 

wildebus

Full Member

Messages
1,888
Having problems getting my head around this electric vehicle business. I saw a video on YouTube on the Fiat Ducato Electric van . An operating range of 90 miles. Enough perhaps for urban deliveries, possibilities of a recharge during drivers rest period. That doesn’t help in our situation. A normal recreational trip would probably be significantly further than 90 miles. Solar would only bring in so much. So what’s the alternative, a generator? Maybe ehu on site, if your able to get that far.
Me thinks, someone has a lot of work to do to replace the internal combustion engine.
I reckon for anyone who needs more driving in a local area (and I thought public transport was meant to be the answer for that?) the Electric Car is dead end road.
And recharging on a campsite? some campsites are hard pushed to provide a 10A hookup so the kind of power hookup needed to recharge an electric vehicle? hmmm.
 

Pedalman

Full Member

Messages
77
Of course, it could have been an electrically powered van towing the battery!
But.....
The main reason for using an electric car is so that it doesn’t pollute the area it is being driven in.

There are huge potential pollution issues though, the actual production of the car itself ( including the running of the factories that produce the parts and assemble the vehicle), battery pack and running, maintenance and manufacture of the electricity generating equipment, has to produce less pollution than the way internal combustion vehicles are produced and powered now.

And, of course, disposal of used batteries has to be clean.
Increased use of electric vehicles will need more electricity to be produced as well as the infrastructure to charge these vehicles at home, work and everywhere else they travel.
When all these factors are taken into account and the electric car is proven to cause less pollution, then it will be a winner.

Till then, I’m just going to be a little sceptical about an all electric world.
If all the vehicles on the roads were electric how many more gas powered generating stations will need to be built when we all plug in after work ? We will pollute the atmosphere, just in a different way.
The spike from putting the kettle on during TV adverts will pale into insignificance.
 

Bedonwheels

Full Member

Messages
125
If we consider the fact that enough energy hits our dying world in one hour, [yes one hour] to power it for one year then there is a massive surplus of clean energy to be had. Electric vehicles and more innovations are coming, some may be purely battery powered but are we forgetting about hydrogen? Using clean solar and wind power [which have a very rapid payback period] hydrogen can be extracted from water. This in turn can powere internal combustion engines and via fuel cells can power electric cars and also provide energy storage.

Sadly until that happens we readily purchase fossil fuels that travel huge distances in massive tankers that belch out enormous amounts of muck , then on the way to our local pumps road tankers do the same. By doing this we're adding to the trillions of bucks in the hands of despots in countries with some very dubious and or nasty regimes.

Most of us can do something to help from investing in companies developing the technology right through to fitting your own solar panels and perhaps a Tesla Powerwall at home? Surely we all owe some pallitive care to our world rather than sitting back accepting things as they are?

Think of your grandchildren as I'd wager that most of us on here have seen the best of things...
 

Trotter

Full Member

Messages
1,277
If we consider the fact that enough energy hits our dying world in one hour, [yes one hour] to power it for one year then there is a massive surplus of clean energy to be had. Electric vehicles and more innovations are coming, some may be purely battery powered but are we forgetting about hydrogen? Using clean solar and wind power [which have a very rapid payback period] hydrogen can be extracted from water. This in turn can powere internal combustion engines and via fuel cells can power electric cars and also provide energy storage.

Sadly until that happens we readily purchase fossil fuels that travel huge distances in massive tankers that belch out enormous amounts of muck , then on the way to our local pumps road tankers do the same. By doing this we're adding to the trillions of bucks in the hands of despots in countries with some very dubious and or nasty regimes.

Most of us can do something to help from investing in companies developing the technology right through to fitting your own solar panels and perhaps a Tesla Powerwall at home? Surely we all owe some pallitive care to our world rather than sitting back accepting things as they are?

Think of your grandchildren as I'd wager that most of us on here have seen the best of things...
Forgive me for saying. But isn’t this what we vote politicians in for? The bloke in the street isn’t going to make little difference, if any, to the state of the world. This is down to the morons in Downing Streets, the White House, the Kremlin not the bloke in 126, High Street, Peckham. Tell the Saudi’s , either they put money up for non fossil fuel development, or we will make life difficult. If no one sells them armaments,us, the French, Vladimir or that blond bloke, life could be very different with their neighbours.
I don’t expect much to happen any time soon.
If everyone had a electric camper, the club policy on generators would soon change if they had any chance of making it back home, lol.
Oh! Trotter’s off on one again ?
 

nabsim

Full Member

Messages
1,883
Is anyone watching the new season Top Gear? Apart from it being a really good laugh with Paddy and Freddy they had the new £40k Tesla on which was fairly impressive effort to get in the mainstream market.

Downside of ev was a 2011 Nissan Note that due to its age had an effective range left of just 35 miles. Sorry but it needs a massive change in technology for ev to become mainstream. Needs a different technology.

Like Del says it’s governments who need to make the changes and metropolitan councils. Just create parking outside, create effective public transport then ban all vehicles from city’s. Electric vehicles (van/tram) move goods in the city. Will they do it, NO, it costs money
 

wildebus

Full Member

Messages
1,888
The earlier EVs had old-generation batteries and would have been significantly compromised. I don't know about the Note but the Prius started with NiMh Batteries which were not close to the current Lithium batteries.
(nio idea what was on Top Gear as I ensure I avoid it at all costs!)


Governments are very much in favour of promoting electric vehicles - as it gives them an excuse to penalise non-EVs and generate revenue under the pretext of being Environmental (for example, until a couple of years ago, Hybrids had zero road tax. Now only pure-EVs are zero-rated and Hybrids are taxed at £140 a year, same as anything else registered from 1st April 2017 (plus of course probably the 1st year hike as they will often be in the upper price bracket due to the technology compared to their non-hybrid twins)
 

Trotter

Full Member

Messages
1,277
As Nabs says. If governments, national and local put their minds to it , inner city pollution could be cut drastically by improving public transport , to an extent that folks wouldn’t want or need to take personal transport into towns. It’s not brain surgery, only requiring a different mind set.
Get that sorted, and the need to change from fossil fuel to “clean” , could be put off until a really clean, as opposed to, said to be clean, fuel is available to all.
Some bright sparks are working on systems now. Let’s hope, that the government spend the millions they take from us in fuel duty and road tax, on helping to find a solution. Rather than what ever they waste it on at the moment. They certainly don’t spend much it on improving roads or transport.
That said, I am aware that money is being spent on Smart (?) motorways , the A14 and other trunk roads, but this is pennies compared to what they have taken in over the years. The British motorist is owed billions by governments off both persuasions in taxes paid.
This take from Peter to pay Paul idea doesn’t work for me. NHS, should be paid for by National Insurance, if the NHS needs more money, increase the NI. If the country is skint, put up income tax, making sure that everyone pays their fair whack, without the intervention of clever accountants. There’s a lot of money out there not being taxed. Find it, collect it, job done. For instance, if you can sell BHS for a pound, and put the rest against tax, you’re a very clever criminal. Let’s have someone with a bit of common sense, change the law, and prosecute these people.
I’ll put my soap box away for now. You may have realised, I’m no fan of the inland revenue and the British tax system.
 

Edina

Moderator

Messages
19,177
As Nabs says. If governments, national and local put their minds to it , inner city pollution could be cut drastically by improving public transport , to an extent that folks wouldn’t want or need to take personal transport into towns. It’s not brain surgery, only requiring a different mind set.
Get that sorted, and the need to change from fossil fuel to “clean” , could be put off until a really clean, as opposed to, said to be clean, fuel is available to all.
Some bright sparks are working on systems now. Let’s hope, that the government spend the millions they take from us in fuel duty and road tax, on helping to find a solution. Rather than what ever they waste it on at the moment. They certainly don’t spend much it on improving roads or transport.
That said, I am aware that money is being spent on Smart (?) motorways , the A14 and other trunk roads, but this is pennies compared to what they have taken in over the years. The British motorist is owed billions by governments off both persuasions in taxes paid.

This take from Peter to pay Paul idea doesn’t work for me. NHS, should be paid for by National Insurance, if the NHS needs more money, increase the NI. If the country is skint, put up income tax, making sure that everyone pays their fair whack, without the intervention of clever accountants. There’s a lot of money out there not being taxed. Find it, collect it, job done. For instance, if you can sell BHS for a pound, and put the rest against tax, you’re a very clever criminal. Let’s have someone with a bit of common sense, change the law, and prosecute these people.
I’ll put my soap box away for now. You may have realised, I’m no fan of the inland revenue and the British tax system.
Interesting, just wondering why the government hasn't used the tax I've paid over the years on my bevvy to build a few Guinness breweries :unsure:
 

Ardachaidh

Full Member

Messages
115
Well, if we all say one person can't make a difference then there's no point to anything. Tell that to Greta. Or maybe as Tesco says, though not about the environment, "Every little helps."

We have had an EV for a year now. (the battery comes with an 8 year warranty) It's manufacture debit is no worse than any other vehicle. There is a problem with the battery, both the rare minerals needed in manufacture and disposal. But drilling for oil and other fossil fuels has caused massive environmental, human and ecological problems. The pollution from the ICE has caused and is causing millions of premature deaths and ill health world wide.

We journeyed 215 miles last Thursday, 2 charging sessions at a charge points which source 100% renewable and a final trickle charge at a C&MHC site for a few hours to top up. At home, where there is no public transport, we have PV panels on the roof of our eco-house (zero fuel bills), so we can charge up using renewable energy. Our local charge points are free to use. Normally we don't do much more than 30 miles per trip, usually less. We cycle to the hairdresser (25 miles round trip and to yoga) and when at campsites we walk to the shops or for leisure.

There are 2 major problems with cars (at least 2): pollution and congestion. EV's are a partial solution to the first but not the second. Much better public transport is part of the solution for the latter plus punitive taxes for those who continue to use cars instead of walking, cycling or using public transport for shorter journeys. I doubt if many will agree with me on these suggestions, but every time I travel through England to get to the ferry terminal I am horrified at the amount of traffic, often with a single occupant, and the way cities, towns and villages have been damaged by successive governments bowing to the car/road haulage lobby.
 

snapster

Full Member

Messages
289
If governments invested properly in public transport and commit to reduce the cost of buying and running electric vehicles, it could go a long way to ease congestion and pollution.
We need to be cutting the amount we travel, so “investing” in HS2 and a third runway at Heathrow, just increases travel and pollution and the costs could be used elsewhere to benefit those who commit to reducing their own pollution.
Electric trams or buses exclusively used in cities would be a massive boost to cleaning city air.
Fossil fuelled power stations in the UK are in the process of being phased out, so proper investment in renewable energy becomes more important, as does the ability to store large amounts of power from, for example, solar farms so this power can be used at night.

The U.K. should be following Norway’s example. Electric cars are subsidised ( UK could use the money they are wasting on HS2!) purchasers do not pay import duty or VAT on electric cars. Charging is free and so is parking. Electric cars are also allowed to use bus lanes and pay no tolls on toll roads.

The government needs to be committed to doing something positive instead of bickering between themselves and wasting money ( Chris Grayling and the ongoing Tory leadership palaver comes to mind here)

So, that will never happen!
 

MJVW

Full Member

Messages
143
Electric Vehicles Bit difficult to charge we have 60 houses in our terraced street we would be fighting for charge points and tripping over cable, so i guess we would all use wireless charging might be a bit slow or an expensive technology to adopt? Don't think the governments are thinking this through for the majority of people, it really needs to be a viable option for all.
 

Trotter

Full Member

Messages
1,277
While I can appreciate those who have ev’s, please remember, not everyone is in the position to afford such vehicles. Cheap they ain’t. I’ve yet to see one registered as a motor home.
All this, is what many may see, as a holier than thou, business of ownership of a ev. Some of us were gullible enough to listen to the government when they told us that diesel was the way to go. Forget petrol vehicles with their invisible toxins, go for safe diesels were you can see the toxins.
I, like many on here have invested their life savings on a motor home, that with fuel duty, and road tax, will soon be unaffordable to use.
If I sound bitter, it could be cos I am. Certainly not for the first time, I feel I’ve been stitched up again.
 

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