Gas adaptors for EU

[Rockburner]

Gas adaptors for EU

Just gathering info really - but we'll be hopefully venturing straight into Europe with our new van (well - as soon as we can!), but obviously need to make provision for gas supplies.

I know that the UK is generally 'Calor', and the EU is 'something else', and I've just assumed that the EU uses 'CampingGaz' type cylinders and the simple spin-on fittings - is this correct? Or is it something different?

(I know nothing about gas plumbing, domestic or esoteric)

Follow-on question - I've read about people buying adaptors that simply serve as a bridge between the EU cylinder and the rest of the standard UK type fittings within the gas-locker, but I've not been able to find this adaptor to buy yet - has anyone got a link or can tell me exactly what product I'm looking for so I can google it??

one other related question - I've seen people use a small pen-style tool to gauge the level of gas in a bottle - what are these (and how do they work?) and can you still buy them??

thanks!

 

[Rockburner]

err - thanks - but the more I read, the more confusing it is.

It seems that not only does france have lots of different gas bottle suppliers - each one has different size bottles, and different fittings per bottle?? Is this really the case? I can't seem to find 1 definitive source, with pictures (to make it easy to understand). googling leads to more confusing simply because there's several different ways of doing things.

I'd love to go refillable - but apparantly some stations don't like you filling bottles directly and you have to fit the filling nozzle to the van??

We probably won't have time to do a full-on switch over to a large underslung LPG tank with properly mounted filling nozzle (which would be my preference tbh).

 

[Penquin]

We did a lot of calculations before we left the UK and opted for refillable as they are an initial expense which in our case was repaid in savings over the cost of replacing cylinders within 2 years. We chose GasLow as it is available over a wider area than the others - even here in France..... We have an external filler fitted as a direct result of some reports of problems when trying to fill in France - we have NEVER encountered any problems BUT we always fill with GPL / LPG at one station and then gasoil (diesel) at another station so there is less chance of us being accused of using GPL for road use - which is supposedly the EU requirement. I believe that it is more heavily enforced in Italy but we have not ventured there yet. We chose when we had the system installed (at a January Shepton Show when it was -9C - ouch) to buy the EU adaptors but have so far only ever used one - the other is still sealed in it's package...... The alternative would have been to change to French cylinders (about 25€ each ime to replace) and a French regulator - often free with a new cylinder. We recouped the cost in less than 2 years use..... our average filling cost for 2 cylinders is less than 10€ so we are saving around 40€ each time - and at that rate it soon becomes economic. The other MAJOR advantage is it saves my back and lifting awkward heavy cylinders into a small space and bending to do it - less strain for backs.......

As regads gauges etc. they are all unreliable IMO due to the way the system works so we turn on one cylinder and use that until it's empty then turn it off and use the second cylinder wile looking to refill - at that point BOTH cylinders get refilled and we have not run out. That method works well for us and GPL is readily available around us (we live in rural France and have 5 stations to choose from within 30 minutes drive - at least one of which we generally go past when we are going ANYWHERE).

 

[Rockburner]

We did a lot of calculations before we left the UK and opted for refillable as they are an initial expense which in our case was repaid in savings over the cost of replacing cylinders within 2 years. We chose GasLow as it is available over a wider area than the others - even here in France..... We have an external filler fitted as a direct result of some reports of problems when trying to fill in France

Who did that fitting for you?

- we have NEVER encountered any problems BUT we always fill with GPL / LPG at one station and then gasoil (diesel) at another station so there is less chance of us being accused of using GPL for road use - which is supposedly the EU requirement.

Sorry - do you mean "less chance of us being accused of using GPL for NON- road use" ???

I believe that it is more heavily enforced in Italy but we have not ventured there yet. We chose when we had the system installed (at a January Shepton Show when it was -9C - ouch) to buy the EU adaptors but have so far only ever used one - the other is still sealed in it's package......

Do you mean the EU adaptors for a body-fitted filing nozzle? Or the Eu adaptors for filling re-fillable non-permanent bottles?? Which is your system? Permanently mounted, or removable bottles?? (I'm confused already - which are you recommending?)

The alternative would have been to change to French cylinders (about 25€ each ime to replace)[/quote]

I assume that's the exchange cost? (swapping a full cylinder for an empty one) What size/brand bottle is that?

and a French regulator - often free with a new cylinder. We recouped the cost in less than 2 years use..... our average filling cost for 2 cylinders is less than 10€ so we are saving around 40€ each time - and at that rate it soon becomes economic.

So you have 2 cylinders?? How does that work with the body-mounted filling nozzle??

The other MAJOR advantage is it saves my back and lifting awkward heavy cylinders into a small space and bending to do it - less strain for backs.......

As regads gauges etc. they are all unreliable IMO due to the way the system works so we turn on one cylinder and use that until it's empty then turn it off and use the second cylinder wile looking to refill - at that point BOTH cylinders get refilled and we have not run out. That method works well for us and GPL is readily available around us (we live in rural France and have 5 stations to choose from within 30 minutes drive - at least one of which we generally go past when we are going ANYWHERE).

Sorry I'm asking a lot of dumb questions, but everything I read assumes a level of understanding/knowledge that I don't yet seem to have.

 

[jagmanx]

Depending on your Finances
Your use of the vehicle (ie how much each year)
How long you think you might keep the vehicle
Go for refillable provided it suits
Yes there are disadvantages but the advantages usually out weigh !

 

[teejay]

It would help you very much if you were at least tell the forum what your vehicle is. Make, model/type/spec/year and perhaps a photo or 3. You are asking lots of questions and putting the cart before the horse and no doubt getting more and more confused. It will make things worse if you continue like that. It is not at all difficult to decide on what you need and what options are available if people know the relevant facts. There is a lot of good advice available on here to help you-so tell us more Rockburner.

 

[Rockburner]

It would help you very much if you were at least tell the forum what your vehicle is. Make, model/type/spec/year and perhaps a photo or 3. You are asking lots of questions and putting the cart before the horse and no doubt getting more and more confused. It will make things worse if you continue like that. It is not at all difficult to decide on what you need and what options are available if people know the relevant facts. There is a lot of good advice available on here to help you-so tell us more Rockburner.

We're buying a 2016 Wiensberg 601 MQH, it's a factory converted Panel van (Fiat Ducato), that's been used in the UK as a hired campervan for a year.
It's currently fitted with UK Calor fittings (I believe), but, although I've hired an identical vehicle before we chose to buy, I can't remember much about the gas setup in the gas locker, situated behind the LHS rear door (stupid location imo*). I THINK it's been setup with a bulkhead mounted regulator, but I couldn't tell you what pressure it's for. I do remember that it had a button you had to press to release the gas into the system. That's about the extent of my knowledge.

We're hoping to go full-time (not immediately), and do a fair bit of wild-camping, hence wanting to upgrade to a large LPG tank instead of removable bottles (I want to optimise internal storage so having gas outside the vehicle would be a bonus), but not sure if we'll have time to get that sorted before we disappear into Europe, hence looking into as much info as possible for adaptors for EU bottles.





* Why put the gas locker in a location that means you have to open BOTH rear doors and the gas door everytime you get to a campsite. If it's pissing down when you arrive or leave then the entire rear section of the van is going to get wet. :White_Thumbs_Down_S

 

[teejay]

Ok. Just looked at the specification for the model, the Carabus! Nice looking vehicle BTW. I take it you are buying it from a dealer. I say this because looking at the spec for your model there are a couple of gas options. However, it does say that it has provision for two 11kg calor bottles so I am assuming that it is in UK spec. First off I would speak to the dealership gas mechanic and get him to show you what the setup is and how it works-take notes if you're not certain you'll recall it all. You have to decide whether you think a refillable setup would suit your needs and be cost effective although I note you say you intend to go full time, therefore it most certainly would but in the meantime you can get used to using the system you've got til you decide to change.

Secondly, there are several aftermarket refillable systems available but I must say that a few of them are absolute rip-offs price wise. Take a look at some and be astonished at the astronomical prices then, google Avon Autogas in Bristol. With them you can have a full twin PROPANE bottle setup with a proper fill valve. Just the same as you would fill your car up but a gas cap instead of diesel or petrol. It wont cost you more than £400 all in, everything done, certified and tested.

As yours is a panel van base, I doubt very much whether you will have the necessary space under the chassis to mount an external tank. However, that is a good thing. They cost a great deal more than a bottle setup and take up a huge amount of space for the amount of gas storage available. You would be paying well over £1000 for no benefit at all- no brainer. The way the bottle sysrem is setup, both bots. are interconnected so one fill automatically goes to whichever or both bottles. They even have rudimentary bottle gauges to tell you what their level is. We travelled to Bristol, stayed overnight in ours and had the job done the next morning-simples. The gas locker on your vehicle is just what it says it is and it would cost you a great deal to have a conversion where you did away with that for the sake of what is just a small cupboard round about 3 ft. by 2.

I had ours done 2 years ago and am entirely happy with it.

The people who mention that they've had problems at fuel stations are mostly ones who do not have a proper refill point mounted on their vehicle and have to open lockers to re fuel the bottle/s separately. No European fuel stations like that approach and some have banned it due to safety issues/accidents etc. but you will not find any problem despite horror stories bandied about. I have visited dozens of them around mainland Europe as well as the UK and never ever been refused a fill up. There are a number of websites you can access to find lists of LPG stations around the UK and Europe some of which will help you and make interesting reading also.

Let me, or any other members who wish to chime in, know if we can help further but this should at least get you going. BTW the website I googled was Weinsberg.com

cheers

Tom.


Ps. With a 'gas cap' refueller point mounted on your vehicle, you will only need to ensure your bottle taps are closed before refuelling and not then need doors open at all. We also have the French cup type adapter and a European adapter which covers most European type filling supply nozzles. Bought for around £25 the lot.

 

[Rockburner]

Thanks Teejay - AvonAutogas certainly seem to be worth a look!

 

[teejay]

Thanks Teejay - AvonAutogas certainly seem to be worth a look!

Since I used them they have another website also, dedicated to motorhome stuff -getgas.co.uk will get you there or phone them.

 

[Penquin]

Who did that fitting for you?

Sorry - do you mean "less chance of us being accused of using GPL for NON- road use" ???

Do you mean the EU adaptors for a body-fitted filing nozzle? Or the Eu adaptors for filling re-fillable non-permanent bottles?? Which is your system? Permanently mounted, or removable bottles?? (I'm confused already - which are you recommending?)

The alternative would have been to change to French cylinders (about 25€ each ime to replace)

There is no such thing as a dumb question just a poor answer - guilty as charged sorry....

The fitting was done by GasLow itself - they attend many shows and we found them helpful and economic but this was when refillable first came in (about 8 years ago)

You are correct it should say NON-road use - my typo sorry for confusion.

The UK system uses one type of filling point which is different from those used in the EU so adaptors are needed if travelling outside the UK - they are not expensive and it is worth buying decent quality. NEVER EVER EVER try to refill a non-refullable bottle e.g. Calor - tere is a rsk of over-filling as there is no safety cut off valve in them.

Our cylinders are "permanently mounted" i.e. bolted in rather than just a retaiing strap - that is to comply with French and EU Law - the UK allows gas cylinders to be secured simply with a strap.

If buying French cyinders there is NO initial cost - you simply buy one for between 25 and 30 the brand is irrelevant as most are the same UNLESS you go for cubes or smaler cylinders - they are more expensive. Generally they are around the same weight as the Calor 13kg size although our MH only had room for the smaller 6kg size (Swift Kontiki design). It is usually possible to find a size that will fit. Cheapest place to buy is virtually any supermarket IMO - but the price is fairly standard.

Our 2 cylinders are connected to one external filling point and both fill at the same time (cylinders should be turned OFF before filling) - it is part of the installation and is well worth looking at;
the GasLow 2 cylinder installation guide attached as a link.

One other advantage is that a refillable system can be removed prior to the sae of the vehicle if desired and fitted in a new vehicle fairly easily or of course it can be sold with the vehicle or separately.

BUT cost it out for yourselves I would NOT recommend self-installation UNLESS you are competent at such things and then before use get it checked and certified as safe. You may also need to inform your insurance company of the change from the original specification (ours were not interested).

 

[channa]

Is anyone going to answer the original question , normal slide into the pros and cons of refillables I see ?

 

[Penquin]

Is anyone going to answer the original question , normal slide into the pros and cons of refillables I see ?

I think if you read the answers most of the points originally asked HAVE been answered.

Camping Gaz type adaptors are not available and Camping Gaz is the most expensive form of LPG going.....

I would never use a link to allow cylinders from the EU to be connected because there are different threads in most countries e.g. France is different to Spain and Portugal and Italy and so on. So no UNIVERSAL type adaptor is available (unless you use Camping Gaz.....)

I have no knowledge of the pen type gauges - but all gauges for LPG are unreliable due to the way LPG works; liquid gas in the cylinder changes to vapour which is what MH use for cooking heating etc - so the take-off is at the top. Vehicles using LPG use liquid so for them the take-off is at the bottom of the reservoir.

I don't think there were any more questions and the reason why people have ventured into refillable is that it is simpler than changing cylinders and buying new ones in each country - with associated regulator changes to cope with as well..... hence if you are likely to need to use a lot of gas (e.g. long trip in winter) ensuring an easy supply with minimal "plumbing" of gas-tight joints seems to me to be highly desirable. BUT it is and must be a matter of personal choice.

 

[channa]

I agree Camping Gaz is available all over France but as mentioned an expensive option ok as a spare perhaps

Unless I missed it the OP didn't state how long he was venturing into France on this occasion, It could well be two calors are sufficient for the trip.?

If not, I would take one full calor to tide me over, visit a brico and get a French bottle , Antargaz is available most places, Initially when you buy the bottle you need the relative regulator or detendre in French. Ok only one bottle but easy to change I was paying 16 euros for Antargaz Calypso.

The regulators are bottle mounted so simply a case of re attaching the existing pigtails. If you have a bulkhead regulator , then no regulator is required but you will need to swop the pigtails.So works with the bottle , Any gas place brico style will see what you need.

Dependant on where you are stopping in a place for a while you can go bottle mounted regulator and feed into an exterior BBQ point. Not my preferred way but possible

Channa

 

[channa]

We're buying a 2016 Wiensberg 601 MQH, it's a factory converted Panel van (Fiat Ducato), that's been used in the UK as a hired campervan for a year.
It's currently fitted with UK Calor fittings (I believe), but, although I've hired an identical vehicle before we chose to buy, I can't remember much about the gas setup in the gas locker, situated behind the LHS rear door (stupid location imo*). I THINK it's been setup with a bulkhead mounted regulator, but I couldn't tell you what pressure it's for. I do remember that it had a button you had to press to release the gas into the system. That's about the extent of my knowledge.

We're hoping to go full-time (not immediately), and do a fair bit of wild-camping, hence wanting to upgrade to a large LPG tank instead of removable bottles (I want to optimise internal storage so having gas outside the vehicle would be a bonus), but not sure if we'll have time to get that sorted before we disappear into Europe, hence looking into as much info as possible for adaptors for EU bottles.





* Why put the gas locker in a location that means you have to open BOTH rear doors and the gas door everytime you get to a campsite. If it's pissing down when you arrive or leave then the entire rear section of the van is going to get wet. :White_Thumbs_Down_S

re my previous post it is the pigtails that will need swopping you don't require a regulator

If your van is 12 months old the regulator will or should be 30 mbar, what that means it will run on propane or butane ( propane best this time of year it gasses easier at low temperatures ) The button you mention is an underpressure shut off valve or (UPSO) its main role in life is if a pipe ruptured in the van the pressure would drop triggering the valve and closing off the gas. Therefore when you change a bottle the system loses pressure and it thinks there is a leaf so shuts down ( doing its job) once the bottle reconnected by pushing the button you are resetting it. I guarantee at some point you will forget to reset it and be sat scratching your head as to why gas isn't coming through ,,,it is a baptism of motorhoming

Channa

 

[wakk44]

......................................

As yours is a panel van base, I doubt very much whether you will have the necessary space under the chassis to mount an external tank. However, that is a good thing. They cost a great deal more than a bottle setup and take up a huge amount of space for the amount of gas storage available. You would be paying well over £1000 for no benefit at all- no brainer.....................
.

Gas tanks are not that expensive,there's not that much difference between refillable bottles and gas tanks of a similar capacity.Another benefit if you can get a refillable tank fitted underneath to the chassis is it will free up the dedicated gas locker for extra storage space.

https://www.autogasshop.co.uk/1-domestic-gas-tanks-complete-with-valves-67-c.asp

 

[alwaysared]

I can recommend Autogas 2000, first class company and first class service

Regards,
Del

 

[Penquin]

I agree Camping Gaz is available all over France but as mentioned an expensive option ok as a spare perhaps

Unless I missed it the OP didn't state how long he was venturing into France on this occasion, It could well be two calors are sufficient for the trip.?

If not, I would take one full calor to tide me over, visit a brico and get a French bottle , Antargaz is available most places, Initially when you buy the bottle you need the relative regulator or detendre in French. Ok only one bottle but easy to change I was paying 16 euros for Antargaz Calypso.

The regulators are bottle mounted so simply a case of re attaching the existing pigtails. If you have a bulkhead regulator , then no regulator is required but you will need to swop the pigtails.So works with the bottle , Any gas place brico style will see what you need.

Dependant on where you are stopping in a place for a while you can go bottle mounted regulator and feed into an exterior BBQ point. Not my preferred way but possible

Channa

I agree for a trip of only a few weeks in the summer there is probably no need to make any special arrangements as 2 x Calor will suffice for e.g. the fridge and hot water. IF winter then the gas heating uses much more - and generally on Calor cylinder will last one to two weeks.

Yesgetting cyllinders in Fance is easy BUT it does require some skill to be able to ensure gas tight connections - not too tight and not too loose. If you have one cylinder to change it may well be that the requirement to swap pig-tails is something the OP is not happy doing as he does comment on his knowledge/skill level.

I also would not recommend inserting via a barbecue point - it can be done but.......

The whole exercise depends on;

1. how long the trip will be

2. how much gas you are likely to use i.e. winter or summer time will directly influence gas use

3. your willingness to exchange cylinders and possibly pig-tails and or regulators - that will depend upon your happiness at tackling such a task.

and no-one can give hard and fast answers to such points - all we can do is offer comments for you to consider.

Using propane is essential in winter due to the speed (or lack of) that the liquid will turn into a gas - effectively the boiling point of the gas for butane (blue Calor) boils at -0.4C and effectively will not give enough gas below abut 7C propane (Calor red cylinders) boils at -42C so will work throughout most European countries even in winter. LPG from petrol stations is mainly propane.

I hope that helps you decide.

 

[channa]

Re the question of measuring how much gas is left in a bottle, The best answer is perhaps to weigh it each cylinder has a tare weight subtract that from what the bottle weighs and the result is how much gas you have got the issue being you are carrying scales about with you , another quick technique this time of year is to pour a little water down the side of the bottle and an ice ring will appear where the liquid level is within the bottle.and that gives a good idea.