How much rust is too much rust

[RSD7a]

In other words, how to decide when to keep repairing/investing and when to give up. I've a 2004 Ducato van conversion, 55k miles. All good inside. However, the Sills inner and outer have been repaired (welded and r-spsray) and already after a year the rust is spotting through. Inner front wings are like lace, the chassis is rust covered but looks solid. Should I give up now or keep on the rust fight?

 

[Molly 3]

No cure for rust ,but can slow it down and repair .l personally believe when the rot sets in it is time to move on .

 

[wildebus]

TBH, sounds to me like a vehicle that is not worth investing much more in and start to look at another base to move the good inards into maybe (if a self-build, could be pretty simple to do?)

 

[Deleted member 2610]

Commercial vans are made to lots of miles over a short period of time. Eventually the time comes when you take it for repair and the man says....., to weld something I need at least one good side to attach something to and you haven't got one.......

 

[Vanterrier]

I found similar with my 2004 Ducato and it was annoying that the main areas of rust were caused by the converter. Where Windows and service doors had been cut out the nibbler cuttings had been allowed to drop into the sill area and just left. The front wheel arches were bad around where the cable clips had been drilled by the converter.
I cut out the rust and found good steel pretty close to the sill sides. The rust was very localised and confined to the very bottom of the sills. I made patches with 1.0mm steel and had our local garage weld each patch in place with a seamless MIG weld. He made a great job and I treated the patches and surrounding steel with paint and waxoyl to good effect.
I did decide though that I would be chasing rust for ever so decided to sell the van. I showed the repairs to the buyer and he was quite happy with what I had done.
So, if it is repairable, I would do the repairs and decide if you want to sell it on. As said above, if there is no good steel to weld patches to then you ar goosed.
Good luck.
K.

 

[RSD7a]

I found similar with my 2004 Ducato and it was annoying that the main areas of rust were caused by the converter. Where Windows and service doors had been cut out the nibbler cuttings had been allowed to drop into the sill area and just left. The front wheel arches were bad around where the cable clips had been drilled by the converter.
I cut out the rust and found good steel pretty close to the sill sides. The rust was very localised and confined to the very bottom of the sills. I made patches with 1.0mm steel and had our local garage weld each patch in place with a seamless MIG weld. He made a great job and I treated the patches and surrounding steel with paint and waxoyl to good effect.
I did decide though that I would be chasing rust for ever so decided to sell the van. I showed the repairs to the buyer and he was quite happy with what I had done.
So, if it is repairable, I would do the repairs and decide if you want to sell it on. As said above, if there is no good steel to weld patches to then you ar goosed.
Good luck.
K.

Thanks for that advice Vanterrier. I've no idea if my rust has a similar cause. (Its a Murvi conversion and pretty high quality in all visible respects.)

Can I ask about your chassis? What condition was it? Visually, mine looks entirely strong and solid but it is also completely covered in rust. No idea if I should be worried or if this is the normal look for a 14 year old chassis. (Clearly it wasn't treated when new). Anyone any thoughts on this aspect?

 

[nabsim]

If you can weld and have the time and somewhere to do it you could keep a vehicle going indefinitely, it’s when you need someone else it becomes a problem. A lot of people will only take on easy welding/patching jobs and not the tricks/fiddly bits. The exception being make enthusiast clubs who can be very inventive, don’t think these exist for commercial based vans though or at least not found them yet

 

[Tezza33]

The chassis under my van (2002 Hymer 584, standard Fiat chassis) wasn't treated when new and it was covered in rust from about six years old, probably spent too much time parked on beaches caused it on mine but I keep an eye on it regularly, it isn't causing me any concern because it is still strong and it is just surface rust and looks worse than it is, also when or if it becomes a problem I can weld.
The biggest problem is not the welding it is stopping it from setting fire to anything flammable bolted to the floor, which is almost everything so finding a welder who has experience with motorhomes is important

 

[oppy]

I used to be able to weld (had a series 1 landy so it was mandatory) but sadly age and lack of manual dexterity have put paid to that (among others) particular talent. That said though, I've found a local garage that specialises in trade MoT's run by a young man with principals. I have just paid £495 for a full service, MoT, complete new drivers side sill, screen washer pump, wheel balance and a few other bits and pieces. He said that there are a couple of other jobs that are in the offing, front shockers and off side front inner wing, but they should be ok at least until this time next year. So, yes, for us, it is worth having the work done on our 1997 Ducato based Lunar especially when it amounts to less than £10 a week

 

[Vanterrier]

My chassis had been under sealed from new but much of that had peeled away especially on leading edges where stones and grit had damaged it. I scraped away the loose stuff, wire brushed then used rust eater before hammeriting and finally waxoyling. It's a long and laborious process but worth it if the rest of the van is good.
As said above the welding needs to be done mindful of the risk of fire inside the van, but if the main problem you see is on the sills and front wheel arches then you should be ok if careful.
The other thing to consider is the mot rules about corrosion within 300mm ( I think it is) from a suspension area.
Maybe you should first seek the advice of a reputable MOT station that does welding and hear what they have to say. Even better if like I did you can get them to do the welding, then you are unlikely to have them fail their own work at MOT time.
Good luck
K

 

[Toyotaman]

Regarding rust proofing I use “Bilt Hamber Laboratories” rust proofing waxes to good effect and find it far better than Waxoil. I have a 20 year old Toyota Regius which was Waxoil rustproofed in 2010 when converted to a campervan then I went over it with Bilt Hamber cavity wax and underbody wax in 2017 and passed it’s MOT with no corrosion issues at all. If there was any rust on the suspension mounting points I painted it with POR15 paint then Hammerite then Bilt Hamber wax. (POR15 paint is available from frost.co.uk) it’s not cheap but it comes in a large tin or small tins.
As it has been mentioned Fiat/Citroen and Peugeot vans were designed for commercial use with a short life span because they usually have a very high mileage in a short space of time before the body starts to rust badly, when used as a basis for motorhomes they do less mileage and thus expected to last longer. As has been pointed out they really need additional rust proofing from the start to make sure their body’s last as long as expected without the need of repairs.

 

[Mick Jordan]

This much could have been too much - but for some very good friends !

 

[Millie Master]

When it comes to panel van conversions the problem is not having a van which wasn't fully galvanised when it was built.

So; the first panel vans to have fully galvanised bodies were the Renault Master/Vauxhall Movano/Nissan ??? from 2004 onwards and the Sevel built vans (Peugeot Boxer/Citroen Relay/Fiat Ducato) from 2007 onwards. Then coming late to the fold were the superb IVECO Daily's where their manufacturing process plays heavily on anti corrosion (https://www.whatvan.co.uk/test-drives/first-drive/2008/factory-visit-—-iveco,-suzzara).

When it comes to the dreaded tin monster I am afraid to say that the models to avoid are ALL the mechanically excellent Ford Rustits (Transits) and of course the otherwise brilliant Merc. Sprinters and their production line partners the VW Crafters both of which only became fully galvanised after the model change in mid 2018.

If the motorhomes being considered are the coachbuilt versions of the above, then from the joint line forward of the extension chassis to the cab unit, then the above is exactly the same.

Bonne chance

 

[trevskoda]

My chassis had been under sealed from new but much of that had peeled away especially on leading edges where stones and grit had damaged it. I scraped away the loose stuff, wire brushed then used rust eater before hammeriting and finally waxoyling. It's a long and laborious process but worth it if the rest of the van is good.
As said above the welding needs to be done mindful of the risk of fire inside the van, but if the main problem you see is on the sills and front wheel arches then you should be ok if careful.
The other thing to consider is the mot rules about corrosion within 300mm ( I think it is) from a suspension area.
Maybe you should first seek the advice of a reputable MOT station that does welding and hear what they have to say. Even better if like I did you can get them to do the welding, then you are unlikely to have them fail their own work at MOT time.
Good luck
K

I am and ran a shotblasting a protective paint shop and for one hammerite is no more than house paint with some zyleen and a polemer to make it look bubbly,to do a job right you must shotblast back to white metal then paint with zink rich two pack before covering with a 2P polyurathane,waxol or dinitron are good for cavity /box sections

 

[mistericeman]

Sadly waxoyl and hammerite are very old tech these days....

Vastly overtaken by more modern products like Dinitrol/buzzweld etc....
Both have superior creep and self healing properties than waxoyl etc.

 

[Millie Master]

In my Land Rover Series and Defender days, like a lemming I followed what everyone else did and used Waxoyl, but as you so rightly say mistericeman those days and product efficiency are a long time ago and these days I use Bilt Hambers Dynax S50, it is expensive but it lasts and reaches those parts that other sprays don't reach................ In very tight sealed places such as box section bulkheads I also use Motul's off road motorcycle chain lube which sprays on very thin but then gals over leaving a bright green greasy coating that also cures rust.

 

[BOTCANU]

Trouble with the welding, more often than not you have to partially strip interior to stop it catching fire , and in the process you usually unearth an absolute nightmare.

 

[mistericeman]

In my Land Rover Series and Defender days, like a lemming I followed what everyone else did and used Waxoyl, but as you so rightly say mistericeman those days and product efficiency are a long time ago and these days I use Bilt Hambers Dynax S50, it is expensive but it lasts and reaches those parts that other sprays don't reach................ In very tight sealed places such as box section bulkheads I also use Motul's off road motorcycle chain lube which sprays on very thin but then gals over leaving a bright green greasy coating that also cures rust.

Yup got THAT t shirt.... And still wearing it

 

[Millie Master]

Yup got THAT t shirt.... And still wearing it

I have always loved your Land Rovers and your amazing skills at welding.