I think we can expect more Cities to introduce low emission zones

grath

Full Member
I think we can expect more Cities to introduce low emission zones.
But what about other Countries, such as France?
Will they get rid of all the old diesel cars?

I think there is a case to buy Euro 6 for longevity, but how long is anybodies guess


science-environment-48596775

people are frightened to buy because they don't know how long they can use

From business news today

The market remains challenging," it said, pointing to data showing a fall in new car registrations of 3.1% in the year to May and "the used car market seeing significant declines in used cars valuations".
 
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grath

Full Member
Just to add
When we recently downsized, future low emission zones was a factor in our decision.
It was not the only reason but did play a part
 

snapster

Full Member
We bought a Euro 6 van because there are an increasing number of emission control zones in France, not that any of the temporary ones have been activated yet. We have no intention of going into the permanent zones ( Paris etc) yet.
We also went to a campsite in London last year within the LEZ, which we wouldn’t be able to do with our old van.
We were impressed with the air quality in London, I have asthma and am very intolerant of diesel exhaust fumes, but I didn’t have any breathing problems, which was great.
If more cities introduce these zones, it can only be a good thing and I for one welcome them.
But, there are plenty of old diesel vehicles around that will go on for years and many people can’t afford to replace them with newer vehicles. I think if they are badly maintained and causing pollution, then they should be taken off the road or have restrictions on their use.
New mot emission rules should help remove the worst vehicles.
Maybe in a few years, when Diesel engines become even cleaner, it might be petrol engines that get victimised.
 

grath

Full Member
I totally agree with getting the badly maintained cars off the road and from my experience there are many more of these in France than in the UK.
But I do feel for the people who own well maintained older cars with lower Euro standards.
Myself, I own a 9 year old Citroen Berlingo which has only 21K miles on the clock
Another thing, I also have asthma and I hate following a smoke belching diesel
 
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wildebus

Full Member
I totally agree with getting the badly maintained cars off the road and from my experience there are many more of these in France than in the UK.
But I do feel for the people who own well maintained older cars with lower Euro standards.
Myself, I own a 9 year old Citroen Berlingo which has only 21K miles on the clock
Another thing, I also have asthma and I hate following a smoke belching diesel
I agree with the above and I don't see why a 'proper' emissions test cannot be done annually (probably as part of the MOT-type test) and use the results of that test to certify the status of an individual vehicle rather than using a blanket standard that is really only applicable when brand new.
 

Minisorella

Moderator
Instead of spending oodles of money on new rules, regs and laws, signage for low emissions areas, huge administration costs, etc, etc... why not invest in developing better filters for all vehicle emissions. I don't doubt we have the brainpower and technological knowhow to virtually eliminate the problem but I guess there's just not enough profit in it?
 

nabsim

Full Member
Part of the reluctance in the new market is the manufacturers falsifying emissions figures. That has knocked on to the second hand market as well. A good few thought they were okay with their new vehicles only to find out they had been conned.

Good public transport is needed to help in city’s, I am not in city’s much to see how things are progressing but out in the sticks where I am we get one bus an hour some days and that’s a good walk from where I live. If companies weren’t obliged to provide some of these routes there wouldn’t be any our way at all.

Ideally nobody would drive into a city, you would use park and ride, deliveries would be transferred to trams, train or electric vehicle. I know that is totally impractical at present but in Utopia that’s the way it would be
 

Caz

Full Member
Just for fun, I checked my current vehicles to see if they can go into London without paying the LEZ charge.

They are all 2004 registered. My petrol/LPG car is ok and so is my diesel Adria Win, but my diesel Autosleeper isn't.

Makes no sense at all.
 

grath

Full Member
Mayor of Manchester has just unveiled details for a clean air plan, 12 years before the government plan
 

FULL TIMER

Full Member
Just wondering if I can get a refund on my Vehicle tax as I won’t be able to drive the old girl on many roads?
I doubt that will ever happen, I also have nothing to drive that would meet with the requirements of these so called low emission zones but then it dosn't effect me at the moment as I wouldn't want to set foot into the area anyway
 

HurricaneSmith

Full Member
I'm certain the places that are considering introducing grandiose schemes have considered the implications on public transport, food prices and tourism. ?

For myself, I'll continue driving my Euro 6 van where I can and happily spend my money there.

What's the betting that the authorities 'forget' to include aviation in their proposals, as to do so would be political suicide. ?
.
 

2cv

Moderator
I'm certain the places that are considering introducing grandiose schemes have considered the implications on public transport, food prices and tourism. ?

For myself, I'll continue driving my Euro 6 van where I can and happily spend my money there.

What's the betting that the authorities 'forget' to include aviation in their proposals, as to do so would be political suicide. ?
.
Since aviation only produces 2% of human-induced carbon dioxide emissions “forgetting” about it in legislation would have very little overall impact. A few figures regarding aviation
 

HurricaneSmith

Full Member
Frankly, when I see the pollution created by other countries, the UK is a shining star by example.

I remember the muck belching out into the air from Chinese factories (from where we Import huge amounts of our currently manufactured goods) and was horrified. The putrid untreated filth pouring out of watercourses into the sea in India is a disgrace. I waded onto the sea in Malaysia only to realise I was walking through sewage. I've walked through streets in West Africa, Central Asia and the Middle East shocked by the discarded rubbish and plastic, waiting for the rain to wash them downstream. Nearer to home I've seen untreated sewage polluting canals and rivers in Belgium (the so called dirty man of Europe).

Personal experience has taught me to distrust the statistics of many 'experts' because they all too often have an agenda of bias. So yes, when I look up at the sky and see aircraft everywhere, and airports demanding future expansion for all kinds of various reasons, I know universal pollution figures are being massaged to suit a simplistic agenda.
.
 

Okta

Full Member
Cost and Inconvenience to Motorists v Poisoning my Grandchildren. I know there are worse polluters in the world but my grandchildren don't live there and the Emissions Zones are aimed at reducing local problems not the global one.
 
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time4t

Full Member
The question of pollution & what causes it, is a tricky one to answer, but the evidence is out there if you look hard enough,
The emissions from all vehicles, all forms of transport, power stations or agraculture (fields being ploughed etc.,) contribute to the pollution of our environment.
20mph limits make vehicles travel in lower gears so higher revs for a longer time means more pollution is created.
The emissions from modern euro 6 diesels, are actually more harmful than much older vehicles, because you can't see them due to the way the DPF filter works. It traps the big particles that the body can deal with but lets the nano ones through to be breathed in by everything that breaths air.
These nano particles used to cling to the bigger ones & fall to earth, but are now increased by the action of the DPF smashing them up & are ingested by the lungs!

Remember, everything we do creates heat, we breath, cook, bathe, travel, exercise etc.,

More & more people, create more pollution & global warming, how many of us shower once or twice a day? it's not really necessary, but we do it to feel good.
If we work out how many hours per day the population of the UK shower it's about 10 million a day (60,000,000 x 10 mins) that's 10 million hours that our water is running, being heated, going down drains, heating up rivers & the sea.
BUT, that's ok, because we feel good!!

In 1804 the world population was 1 billion, it took 121 years (1925) for it to reach 2 billion, so it's increased by another 5,7 billion in the last 94 years!!!!!

It's really not looking good for us is it.

Phill
 

Caz

Full Member
Mayor of Manchester has just unveiled details for a clean air plan, 12 years before the government plan
This week I attended a workshop hosted by Transport for Greater Manchester regarding this. The answer is we must all Go Electric. They had a number of the currently available electric vehicles, LDV seem to be leading the field in the small commercial vehicle sector, but sadly the model on display only had a range of 100 miles compared to some of the cars which can go 168 (Nissan Leaf) to 375 (Tesla S) miles between charges.
 

nabsim

Full Member
This week I attended a workshop hosted by Transport for Greater Manchester regarding this. The answer is we must all Go Electric. They had a number of the currently available electric vehicles, LDV seem to be leading the field in the small commercial vehicle sector, but sadly the model on display only had a range of 100 miles compared to some of the cars which can go 168 (Nissan Leaf) to 375 (Tesla S) miles between charges.
The range will change quickly I think over the next few years as battery technology improves. If it doesn’t then electricity will not be the answer everyone thinks. Battery manufacture itself has many environmental negatives. Still nowhere near good enough for anyone not spending all their time in city’s, the 100 mile range is local delivery fleet stuff.

Of course there ma well be another technology that could do it much sooner. Anyone mention hydrogen

Edit: the hydrogen question was to Caz regarding the workshop
 

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