Intermittent near side rear indicator issue

[GMJ]

My near side rear indicator has developed an irritating fault. It occasionally decide to flash for no reason. It may do this once/twice in fairly quick succession and then not bother for 20 mins or for 10 hours or longer!

The MH is stationary and plugged into a 16A EHU supply.

The sound is a double click 'tick-tock' type noise as per the usual indicator noise.

Any ideas how I can investigate?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I'd swap the bulb from the other side first I think G.

 

[merl]

Because the indicator circuitry is dead until the ignition is turned on I'd be investigating the hazard warning light system even though only one indicator flashes. These sorts of intermittent faults are notoriously hard to find, especially when they can go hours and hours without issue. It may be best if you post the question on a forum dedicated to the chassis. Hopefully it wont be an ECU issue.
Have you checked the battery voltage accurately with a multimeter when on EHU? A high voltage could possibly upset some sensitive electronics (if your indicators are controlled in that manner)

 

[Pudsey Bear]

If it was dead how is it flashing at all, as I said the simplest way is to swap the bulb for the other side.

 

[GMJ]

The hazards are working fine when I put them on: all 4 front and rear. With the engine on or off.

Can I ask: what would swapping the bulb hope to achieve?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Two things Graham at least, you get to see behind the lens, and if you still have the problem after swapping them then it the light or further in.

I think some of the other suggestions could of course be correct, but the KISS principle is the easiest, cheapest and quickest, rather than starting at the most complicated.

The hazard part is on a different circuit part of the time.

I have a bulb warning on my van most of the time but I've had everything on and not found one not working.

 

[merl]

Two things Graham at least, you get to see behind the lens, and if you still have the problem after swapping them then it the light or further in.

I think some of the other suggestions could of course be correct, but the KISS principle is the easiest, cheapest and quickest, rather than starting at the most complicated.

The hazard part is on a different circuit part of the time.

I have a bulb warning on my van most of the time but I've had everything on and not found one not working.

I fail to see how it can be the bulb Kev, think about it, for the bulb to work at all there needs to be power so the bulb must be getting power from a part of the circuit further back and that MUST include the flasher unit because the bulb is flashing. Graham can also hear a tick tock sound therefore the fault must be flasher unit or PRE flasher unit.
At first I thought it was the column stick contacts intermittently MAKING on the left hand circuit but it cant be that because the indicators dont work with the ignition off.
Out of interest is the 'tick tock' you hear a simulated sound coming from a speaker within the dash or a sound actually coming from the relay do you think?
And is the 'tick tock' the same or different WRT indicators and hazzards?
Does the alarm flash the indicators when it goes off?
What year is the van?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I can only give my thoughts Merl not being a sparky, but contacts fail, bulbs can be intermittent too, you have to start somewhere.

I have to admit the "It occasionally decide to flash for no reason" in the OP throws me a bit.

Does the canbus extend to the hab too?

 

[wildebus]

I fail to see how it can be the bulb Kev, think about it, for the bulb to work at all there needs to be power so the bulb must be getting power from a part of the circuit further back and that MUST include the flasher unit because the bulb is flashing. Graham can also hear a tick tock sound therefore the fault must be flasher unit or PRE flasher unit.

The following is just for a bit of interest and is unlikely to be behind the specific issue (but you never know? I think the OPs base van is a Fiat, but might not be?)
On some vehicles - VW is a good example - for many circuits, the switching on and off is NOT on the positive side but actually on the return (earth) side. This means the bulbs themselves always have +12V present and if they happen to find an alternative ground somewhere rather than the proper switched path, the bulb will turn on by itself. A bit weird maybe, but there you go.

Like I said, unlikely to be the OPs problem, but if you happen to put a meter on a bulb connection on a VW and find you have 12V even though it is not lit, don't be surprised

At first I thought it was the column stick contacts intermittently MAKING on the left hand circuit but it cant be that because the indicators dont work with the ignition off.
Out of interest is the 'tick tock' you hear a simulated sound coming from a speaker within the dash or a sound actually coming from the relay do you think?
And is the 'tick tock' the same or different WRT indicators and hazzards?
Does the alarm flash the indicators when it goes off?
What year is the van?

 

[merl]

The following is just for a bit of interest and is unlikely to be behind the specific issue (but you never know? I think the OPs base van is a Fiat, but might not be?)
On some vehicles - VW is a good example - for many circuits, the switching on and off is NOT on the positive side but actually on the return (earth) side. This means the bulbs themselves always have +12V present and if they happen to find an alternative ground somewhere rather than the proper switched path, the bulb will turn on by itself. A bit weird maybe, but there you go.

Like I said, unlikely to be the OPs problem, but if you happen to put a meter on a bulb connection on a VW and find you have 12V even though it is not lit, don't be surprised

Yeh, I'd considered the 'switched negative' issue but again the bulb would be either on or off not repeatedly flashing, also the op can hear the tick tock.
I don't know how an alarm is linked into the indicators to make them flash but my first port of call would be to remove this ( still leave the alarm functional, just disable the connection to the indicators) and then monitor for a few days.

 

[trevskoda]

Im still going for a faulty winker unit or stray power getting to it from else where, ok the front one not working but maybe not a good strong current there but at the back yes.

 

[GMJ]

Thanks all

To pick up on a few points

- It is a Ducato based MH. 2017 model

- The noise is coming from the rear corner where the indicator flashes. No noise at the front or elsewhere at all.

 

[merl]

The noise is coming from the rear corner where the indicator flashes. No noise at the front or elsewhere at all.

Well that probably changes a lot.
Could be down to a fault in a tow bar wiring repeater. Trace the wiring and try and find the source of the ticking. Look for cables abrading on bodywork where they pass through holes or rub.

 

[GMJ]

Thanks

I'm not sure why it necessitated a 'roll eyes' emoji though as you did ask in post #7 where the sound was coming from.

I intend to get underneath the MH and have a look when we can get to some dry land as it's been very wet thus far in France and Spain.

 

[merl]

Sorry Graham. More of an attempt at humour rather than an insult.
The inclusion of the info that the tick tock came from the rear of the vehicle was a bit of a golden nugget but you weren't to know that, so the rolleyes was more of a statement about myself and my previous posts rather than you. Sorry again, if I knew it was going to upset or offend I wouldn't have added it.

 

[GMJ]

Hi Merl - you didn't and it is fine. My apologies for my mis interpretation.

 

[GMJ]

Right!

I spent most of yesterday afternoon underneath the MH trying to sort this problem out.

Firstly I thought to check out one of the rear LED indicator clusters as it has some small external damage due to my incident last year in Italy. There were some cables visible underneath but they looked good. I also unscrewed the LED unit out and the connection was sound to that. I also managed to remove a small piece of panel underneath the MH to access some more of the cabling but it al looked good.

Next I traced the clicking sound to the Sargent VLM5 LED control unit which was in my garage. I checked the plugs were connected properly in there and then started to isolate each plug and time the clicking noises to see which (if any) plug helped the problem. By doing this I identified 1 plug so then traced that back to the EM40 floor fuse box behind my drivers seat.

I then removed the corresponding plug in the EM40 which was basically the 2 wire power circuit to the rear VLM5. Job done!

The clicking has stopped but I must remember to put the plug back in when we are travelling as it controls the rear LED's.

I have emailed both Sargent and the dealer who installed my new EM40 in November 2022 as this is now the second thing wrong with the EM40 on this trip as the plug/socket for the fridge control burned out a couple of weeks ago. I have had a response from Sargent on this and will update with some interesting news from them in due course, when I have had replies to yesterday's emails.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Had I known it was an LED system I wouldn't have suggested a bulb swap, details matter but I'm glad you got to the bottom of the problem, and I hope Sargent eventually fix the problem properly.

 

[merl]

Right!

I spent most of yesterday afternoon underneath the MH trying to sort this problem out.

Firstly I thought to check out one of the rear LED indicator clusters as it has some small external damage due to my incident last year in Italy. There were some cables visible underneath but they looked good. I also unscrewed the LED unit out and the connection was sound to that. I also managed to remove a small piece of panel underneath the MH to access some more of the cabling but it al looked good.

Next I traced the clicking sound to the Sargent VLM5 LED control unit which was in my garage. I checked the plugs were connected properly in there and then started to isolate each plug and time the clicking noises to see which (if any) plug helped the problem. By doing this I identified 1 plug so then traced that back to the EM40 floor fuse box behind my drivers seat.

I then removed the corresponding plug in the EM40 which was basically the 2 wire power circuit to the rear VLM5. Job done!

The clicking has stopped but I must remember to put the plug back in when we are travelling as it controls the rear LED's.

I have emailed both Sargent and the dealer who installed my new EM40 in November 2022 as this is now the second thing wrong with the EM40 on this trip as the plug/socket for the fridge control burned out a couple of weeks ago. I have had a response from Sargent on this and will update with some interesting news from them in due course, when I have had replies to yesterday's emails.

I don't know if you've done so already but the installation/ user guide for the VLM5 makes reference to your exact problem. It's caused by the unit 'seeing' a false trigger from an indicator. Sargent apparently have a software update available.