Lithium leisure batteries

jonscase

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Lithium leisure batteries

Has anyone had experience of using a lithium leisure battery in their motorhome/campervan? I'm exploring the idea as I've found lead-acid ones don't last long if they are deep cycled and I understand lithium ones allow this without such problems. .
 
Use them on various workshop/forge tools and they are indeed excellent batteries. For stand alone leisure batteries you would need a decent current charge indicator as these give full power right to the moment they are out of power and give no warning of that otherwise. If using together with solar power to maintain charge, don't see any problem. You get what you pay for and they are much more expensive than lead acid type as are gel batteries of the larger size but they last longer. What's your intended use?
 
Thanks teejay - I use my van quite a lot without electrical hook-up, and also without driving very far some days. Main drain on battery is the fridge, plus use blown air heater and lights - more at this time of year. Do have a solar panel that provides a top up.
 
jonscase;n3973 said:
Has anyone had experience of using a lithium leisure battery in their motorhome/campervan? I'm exploring the idea as I've found lead-acid ones don't last long if they are deep cycled and I understand lithium ones allow this without such problems. .
Click to expand...

This is am interesting subject and is one that I have researched a lot over the past few years.

The conclusion was that there are better methods of achieving the same battery bank characteristics without using lithium batteries.

I ended up buying 3 NorthStar NSB-210FT Blue Batteries. They are heavy but have a 2000+ cycle life at 50% discharge. They have super fast recharge times and can have an unlimited charge current.

3 of these batteries would cost you about £1700 and would supply 600Ah on the 10 hour rate or 900Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 50% DoD over 100 hours gives you 108Ah per day to use without going below 50% DoD. As these batteries are thin plate AGM you can take them to 80% but it will shorten the lifespan. 3 batteries weigh 207kgs and would be 378mm wide x 550mm length x 328mm Height. 2000+ cycles.


Now lithium...

2 Victron Lithium 300Ah batteries would cost you about £6000 and would supply 600Ah at 25c / 480Ah at 0c. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 115Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 2 batteries weigh 102kgs and would be 425mm wide x 530mm length x 347mm Height. These batteries also require a special battery management system. 2500 cycles.

Trojan batteries...

4 Trojan t-105 batteries would cost you about £680 and would supply 414Ah on the 10 hour rate or 500Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 96Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 4 batteries weigh 104kgs and would be 262 mm wide x 724mm length x 283mm Height. These batteries must be ventilated. 1000 cycles.


AGM batteries are heavier (double the weight)
AGM batteries are safer.

Lithium batteries take up more space.
Lithium batteries are expensive.
Lithium batteries need to be kept warm for them to achieve their full capacity.
Lithium batteries need need a battery management system.

Trojan wet batteries are cheaper.
Trojan wet batteries have a shorter cycle life. (but this is balanced by the price)
Trojan wet batteries must be ventilated.
Trojan wet batteries require regular maintenance.

There are other things to consider like charge efficiency, but that is a much larger subject

If you want a good battery bank 4 trojan t-105 batteries are most likely your best option.






 
A lot of research there. As for my motorhome, I am somewhat restricted as to what i can do due to its warranty, as the solar system was dealer fitted prior to registration (as were other dealer goodies to sell the vehicle) and currently is simply a 120w panel via a basic pwm controller to a 110ah lead acid battery. It is not even switchable between that and the start battery which is left to its own devices. It does however, suffice for our usage currently. Things will change if I still have it after warranty. It will be at least 600w of solar panel, an mppt controller, switchable or not it will also maintain the start battery and the leisure batteries will be 2 X 180ah lead acid. Life is too short to be buying massively overpriced lithium, li-ion or gel batteries which will probably outlast both of us in terms of years of useful life.

Weight wont be a consideration for me, once their in, theyre staying there!

We also have a touring caravan that is permanently sited and we have the same set up as I will have on the moho, there. It has been trouble and worry free for 2 years now and still going strong. I top up the cells yearly and that's it.

Big downside for me apart from cost, is safety- if they go wrong they can explode occasionally, damaging considerably whatever they are fitted in. They can and have gone on fire also. They require considerable and constant monitoring, storage and maintenance.

What is it we are trying to do? All we need is lighting, power for tv/radio, power for vehicle equipment minor power for usb type chargers and possibly small notebook type pcs. That's not a lot of power at all esp if you have led lights and tv.

Save your money and do it the safe, sensible, cost effective, relatively carefree way and keep it simple.
 
Quite a bit to think about here - thanks.

My problem is space - without some serious modification I only have room for 1 battery - max 330 mm long. The fridge is the only major drain, but the lead- acid batteries I've used previously (110 Ah I think) haven't been up to the job for long. - the last only 2 years, presumably due to deep cycling.
 
jonscase;n4095 said:
Quite a bit to think about here - thanks.

My problem is space - without some serious modification I only have room for 1 battery - max 330 mm long. The fridge is the only major drain, but the lead- acid batteries I've used previously (110 Ah I think) haven't been up to the job for long. - the last only 2 years, presumably due to deep cycling.
Click to expand...

330mm-13" isn't a lot for a decent sized battery-possibly look for a new area to accommodate 2 close up tight to each other and about 18" square would be good and 180 Ah each. Of course you would need to maintain them by solar panels and its usual to connect them together in parallel. Do you have one/any? Is your fridge a 3 way, gas elec and batt? If so you will not get much power from a 110ah battery for that. It should only be switched to battery while the engine is running and the alternator powers the fridge. Any other time, either mains power lead or gas operation.
 
Admin;n4062 said:
This is am interesting subject and is one that I have researched a lot over the past few years.

The conclusion was that there are better methods of achieving the same battery bank characteristics without using lithium batteries.

I ended up buying 3 NorthStar NSB-210FT Blue Batteries. They are heavy but have a 2000+ cycle life at 50% discharge. They have super fast recharge times and can have an unlimited charge current.

3 of these batteries would cost you about £1700 and would supply 600Ah on the 10 hour rate or 900Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 50% DoD over 100 hours gives you 108Ah per day to use without going below 50% DoD. As these batteries are thin plate AGM you can take them to 80% but it will shorten the lifespan. 3 batteries weigh 207kgs and would be 378mm wide x 550mm length x 328mm Height. 2000+ cycles.


Now lithium...

2 Victron Lithium 300Ah batteries would cost you about £6000 and would supply 600Ah at 25c / 480Ah at 0c. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 115Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 2 batteries weigh 102kgs and would be 425mm wide x 530mm length x 347mm Height. These batteries also require a special battery management system. 2500 cycles.

Trojan batteries...

4 Trojan t-105 batteries would cost you about £680 and would supply 414Ah on the 10 hour rate or 500Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 96Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 4 batteries weigh 104kgs and would be 262 mm wide x 724mm length x 283mm Height. These batteries must be ventilated. 1000 cycles.


AGM batteries are heavier (double the weight)
AGM batteries are safer.

Lithium batteries take up more space.
Lithium batteries are expensive.
Lithium batteries need to be kept warm for them to achieve their full capacity.
Lithium batteries need need a battery management system.

Trojan wet batteries are cheaper.
Trojan wet batteries have a shorter cycle life. (but this is balanced by the price)
Trojan wet batteries must be ventilated.
Trojan wet batteries require regular maintenance.

There are other things to consider like charge efficiency, but that is a much larger subject

If you want a good battery bank 4 trojan t-105 batteries are most likely your best option.
Click to expand...

That's why we fitted the trojans to the rv it was the best system at the time and cost wise probably still is , the boating fraternity use them and they don't tend to compromise when it comes to power supplies on off shore sailing boats !
This subject can get very complicated as you see the Trojan batteries are actually 6 volt but the consensus of opinion is that they are more efficient than the 12 volt version and also charge better as a simple explanation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
teejay - in response to your q: have one 100w solar panel, and fridge is electric only. The guy who did our conversion said that the fitted battery would be sufficient - but I'm realising that he's probably wrong about that...
 
jonscase;n4272 said:
teejay - in response to your q: have one 100w solar panel, and fridge is electric only. The guy who did our conversion said that the fitted battery would be sufficient - but I'm realising that he's probably wrong about that...
Click to expand...

You might get away with it In a sunny July or August !
is there nowhere else that you could fit a pair of batteries.
 
Exwindsurfer;n4293 said:
I have 400watts of solar and 3 x 125amp batteries and run a 110ltr compressor fridge all works fine for us .
Click to expand...

Show off lol.
 
Admin;n4062 said:
This is am interesting subject and is one that I have researched a lot over the past few years.

The conclusion was that there are better methods of achieving the same battery bank characteristics without using lithium batteries.

I ended up buying 3 NorthStar NSB-210FT Blue Batteries. They are heavy but have a 2000+ cycle life at 50% discharge. They have super fast recharge times and can have an unlimited charge current.

3 of these batteries would cost you about £1700 and would supply 600Ah on the 10 hour rate or 900Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 50% DoD over 100 hours gives you 108Ah per day to use without going below 50% DoD. As these batteries are thin plate AGM you can take them to 80% but it will shorten the lifespan. 3 batteries weigh 207kgs and would be 378mm wide x 550mm length x 328mm Height. 2000+ cycles.


Now lithium...

2 Victron Lithium 300Ah batteries would cost you about £6000 and would supply 600Ah at 25c / 480Ah at 0c. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 115Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 2 batteries weigh 102kgs and would be 425mm wide x 530mm length x 347mm Height. These batteries also require a special battery management system. 2500 cycles.

Trojan batteries...

4 Trojan t-105 batteries would cost you about £680 and would supply 414Ah on the 10 hour rate or 500Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 96Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 4 batteries weigh 104kgs and would be 262 mm wide x 724mm length x 283mm Height. These batteries must be ventilated. 1000 cycles.


AGM batteries are heavier (double the weight)
AGM batteries are safer.

Lithium batteries take up more space.
Lithium batteries are expensive.
Lithium batteries need to be kept warm for them to achieve their full capacity.
Lithium batteries need need a battery management system.

Trojan wet batteries are cheaper.
Trojan wet batteries have a shorter cycle life. (but this is balanced by the price)
Trojan wet batteries must be ventilated.
Trojan wet batteries require regular maintenance.

There are other things to consider like charge efficiency, but that is a much larger subject

If you want a good battery bank 4 trojan t-105 batteries are most likely your best option.
Click to expand...

A well researched and very well presented piece of work, Phil. Sets the bar at a pretty high level!

Colin ???
 
Thanks to all for the advice. Current battery is 135 Ah, I have discovered. I have further explored my setup and I could get another battery fitted close to the original (obviously replacing this), if it were on it's side. So looking at either Gel or AGM batteries that will allow this, and I can then double the capacity.

Regards to all
 
Admin;n4062 said:
This is am interesting subject and is one that I have researched a lot over the past few years.

The conclusion was that there are better methods of achieving the same battery bank characteristics without using lithium batteries.

I ended up buying 3 NorthStar NSB-210FT Blue Batteries. They are heavy but have a 2000+ cycle life at 50% discharge. They have super fast recharge times and can have an unlimited charge current.

3 of these batteries would cost you about £1700 and would supply 600Ah on the 10 hour rate or 900Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 50% DoD over 100 hours gives you 108Ah per day to use without going below 50% DoD. As these batteries are thin plate AGM you can take them to 80% but it will shorten the lifespan. 3 batteries weigh 207kgs and would be 378mm wide x 550mm length x 328mm Height. 2000+ cycles.


Now lithium...

2 Victron Lithium 300Ah batteries would cost you about £6000 and would supply 600Ah at 25c / 480Ah at 0c. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 115Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 2 batteries weigh 102kgs and would be 425mm wide x 530mm length x 347mm Height. These batteries also require a special battery management system. 2500 cycles.

Trojan batteries...

4 Trojan t-105 batteries would cost you about £680 and would supply 414Ah on the 10 hour rate or 500Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 96Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 4 batteries weigh 104kgs and would be 262 mm wide x 724mm length x 283mm Height. These batteries must be ventilated. 1000 cycles.


AGM batteries are heavier (double the weight)
AGM batteries are safer.

Lithium batteries take up more space.
Lithium batteries are expensive.
Lithium batteries need to be kept warm for them to achieve their full capacity.
Lithium batteries need need a battery management system.

Trojan wet batteries are cheaper.
Trojan wet batteries have a shorter cycle life. (but this is balanced by the price)
Trojan wet batteries must be ventilated.
Trojan wet batteries require regular maintenance.

There are other things to consider like charge efficiency, but that is a much larger subject

If you want a good battery bank 4 trojan t-105 batteries are most likely your best option.
Click to expand...

The above is very interesting. I had been considering biting the bullet and buying lithium batteries but now you have made me think again. In your comparison I am surprised that lithium batteries are bigger. In other applications they are often smaller for the same energy storage. However dimensions of leisure batteries are often not the critical part of the specification. Having followed up your recommendation for Trojan batteries I found a retailer (Tayna) that suggests that the Rolls S290 series is even better and it has a 7 year warranty which infers battery life should be pretty good. I presume that in the motorhome application you use a battery-battery charger unit to make sure the leisure batteries receive an adequate charging rate. Can you recommend a particular unit and what current limit would you recommend for charging? Depending on the space and weight I am willing to allocate I may only go for two 6v batteries. In that case it will only just be over 200Ah total capacity. Presumably the acceptable charge rate will be proportional to capacity? The ventilation issue can easily be catered for and as long as the charger is of the right type maintenance should be more about checking the level rather than having to replenish with water.
 
You might find the info you need here. (I have trojans and can confirm they are v good)

 
Admin;n4062 said:
This is am interesting subject and is one that I have researched a lot over the past few years.

The conclusion was that there are better methods of achieving the same battery bank characteristics without using lithium batteries.

I ended up buying 3 NorthStar NSB-210FT Blue Batteries. They are heavy but have a 2000+ cycle life at 50% discharge. They have super fast recharge times and can have an unlimited charge current.

3 of these batteries would cost you about £1700 and would supply 600Ah on the 10 hour rate or 900Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 50% DoD over 100 hours gives you 108Ah per day to use without going below 50% DoD. As these batteries are thin plate AGM you can take them to 80% but it will shorten the lifespan. 3 batteries weigh 207kgs and would be 378mm wide x 550mm length x 328mm Height. 2000+ cycles.


Now lithium...

2 Victron Lithium 300Ah batteries would cost you about £6000 and would supply 600Ah at 25c / 480Ah at 0c. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 115Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 2 batteries weigh 102kgs and would be 425mm wide x 530mm length x 347mm Height. These batteries also require a special battery management system. 2500 cycles.

Trojan batteries...

4 Trojan t-105 batteries would cost you about £680 and would supply 414Ah on the 10 hour rate or 500Ah on the 100 hour rate. So to break it down to 80% DoD over 100 hours gives you 96Ah per day to use without going below 80% DoD. 4 batteries weigh 104kgs and would be 262 mm wide x 724mm length x 283mm Height. These batteries must be ventilated. 1000 cycles.


AGM batteries are heavier (double the weight)
AGM batteries are safer.

Lithium batteries take up more space.
Lithium batteries are expensive.
Lithium batteries need to be kept warm for them to achieve their full capacity.
Lithium batteries need need a battery management system.

Trojan wet batteries are cheaper.
Trojan wet batteries have a shorter cycle life. (but this is balanced by the price)
Trojan wet batteries must be ventilated.
Trojan wet batteries require regular maintenance.

There are other things to consider like charge efficiency, but that is a much larger subject

If you want a good battery bank 4 trojan t-105 batteries are most likely your best option.
Click to expand...

I was told AGM batteries are lighter than FLA
 
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