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Longer, heavier Moho implications?

Phantom

Full Member

Messages
106
We're planning to change our motorhome in August, we don't want to at all but the sole reason is that we choose to carry a heavier scooter in the garage that puts our current MH very near it's rear axle limits even without any water etc onboard, but are not interested in any other carrying methods. Things had been just fine until we visited a weighbridge :oops:. We Currently have a 3.5T MH and uprating to 3850 kgs would not really help too much.
Our current Mercedes sprinter based MH is 7.3 metre long & about 3 metre or so high. I gather that road tax will be about £100 cheaper for say a 4.6T as PHG, but would also be interested to know of any other implications if we say went around Europe regarding tolls and ferries etc? They always say that you will find that your first MH is not quite 100% ideal as first thought, but this was very close and we intend to just buy the same layout but on a heavier chassis! Are there any real pro's and con's of being under or over 7 metres long and height ?
 
Last edited:

grath

Full Member

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2,550
We had a 8 metre with scooter rack van at 4500kg gross with over 1000kg payload
We now have a light 7 metre Hymer Exsis at 3500kg with scooter going in garage
With both, we carry or carried our Honda Vision 110
On the larger van the weight distribution was easier because it had full under floor storage and it was easy to get weight forward
With a garage there is lots of room but most storage is at the rear and it is difficult to get weight fwd
We do carry lots of stuff, extra coolers and two tables and much much more
Our previous larger van was legal with full water
Our present van would go over weight on both gross and rear axle
I doubt a larger scooter could be carried in any, if other gear and full tanks
The rear axle load and weight distribution will be the critical thing
I do miss my larger van but I was always on hands and knees into lockers and I prefer a full garage
 

grath

Full Member

Messages
2,550
To add
I can most certainly drive my narrower and lower Exsis down narrower roads than our larger van and much less stress
Don’t get me wrong, I did years of trucking with artics all over Europe so size is not a problem for my ability
 

nabsim

Full Member

Messages
1,864
We're planning to change our motorhome in August, we don't want to at all but the sole reason is that we choose to carry a heavier scooter in the garage that puts our current MH very near it's rear axle limits even without any water etc onboard, but are not interested in any other carrying methods. Things had been just fine until we visited a weighbridge :oops:. We Currently have a 3.5T MH and uprating to 3850 kgs would not really help too much.
Our current Mercedes sprinter based MH is 7.3 metre long & about 3 metre or so high. I gather that road tax will be about £100 cheaper for say a 4.6T as PHG, but would also be interested to know of any other implications if we say went around Europe regarding tolls and ferries etc? They always say that you will find that your first MH is not quite 100% ideal as first thought, but this was very close and we intend to just buy the same layout but on a heavier chassis! Are there any real pro's and con's of being under or over 7 metres long and height ?
Don’t know how much more capacity you need but if the layout and everything else is what you want you can go above 3850kgs. Our Phantom is total 4t, 2430kgs rear axle and 1750kgs front.
 

SimonM

Full Member

Messages
442
I have just had my 3500kg replated to 4100kg, practically a paperwork exercise as I’ve got air suspenders on the rear already. Is that an option for you to retain the MH you know and love?
 

grath

Full Member

Messages
2,550
Oh well, another opening poster that can’t be bothered to reply ?grr
It is really annoying after going to the trouble of a long reply. Wakey wakey ?
 

RV2MAX

Full Member

Messages
222
When you go heavier its usually with a increase in size(length) so you dont gain all the increase with gvw as payload , also with increased length quite often there is a increase in the lever arm of the garage load . So you need to be careful that you don't take one forward and two back .
 

barryd

Moderator

Messages
299
When you go heavier its usually with a increase in size(length) so you dont gain all the increase with gvw as payload , also with increased length quite often there is a increase in the lever arm of the garage load . So you need to be careful that you don't take one forward and two back .
I agree with that. Ive been looking for a new van for years to replace our Kontiki 640 and a heavier van is not always the solution. The newer Kontikis for example some are 4.5t whereas our current one is 3.5t but has more "available" payload than the heavier model. God knows what they stuffed in it to make it so lardy. I started to think the best option would be to find a van thats say 3.5 tone or 3.85t that is able to be uprated to 4, 4.25 or even 4.5t thus giving it a much higher payload but I just lost the will to live trying to figure it all out and then find a model that suits our preferred layout (rear lounge, front dinette). I gave up, several times. Still got the same van. :D
 

loulou

Full Member

Messages
184
An extra consideration is the number of axles, many tolls, ferries etc. both in the UK and the EU charge by the number of axles, so with a tag axle you are charged the next higher category.
 

snapster

Full Member

Messages
289
A cheaper and easier solution could be a side loading trailer. You won’t need to change your van with the associated monetary loss, but you may need to get a towbar fitted.
Also, it will give you 3 axles, so French toll charges might be higher.
 

Phantom

Full Member

Messages
106
Don’t know how much more capacity you need but if the layout and everything else is what you want you can go above 3850kgs. Our Phantom is total 4t, 2430kgs rear axle and 1750kgs front.
The first time we weighed it it was 2470 kgs on the back axle and a total of 3830 kgs with the scoot and 80L of water, though have lost and moved some weight since to get the back axle and tyres about down to about their 2240 kgs weight limit without any water or the spare wheel onboard. I didn't think that I could get the back axle uprated by another 200 kgs so that might work out, but I do already have air assisted suspension.
 

Phantom

Full Member

Messages
106
I have just had my 3500kg replated to 4100kg, practically a paperwork exercise as I’ve got air suspenders on the rear already. Is that an option for you to retain the MH you know and love?
Quite possibly?
 

Phantom

Full Member

Messages
106
When you go heavier its usually with a increase in size(length) so you don't gain all the increase with gvw as payload , also with increased length quite often there is a increase in the lever arm of the garage load . So you need to be careful that you don't take one forward and two back .
Well that's the main problem with having 2 metres overhang with the garage, the leverage effect of adding up to 50% more load than the actual weight to the back axle. It seems that the 4.6t chassis is about the same dimensions but the twin rear wheels will take more load. The thing is that the more weight at the back, the more you take off the front. When my current set up was overloaded it felt kind of okay enough on the front but feels much better now it is better balanced front/back. Uprating alone cannot change the load distribution so I am wondering if say a 4.6t chassis would would handle the front/back load distribution any different, unless it was heavier at the front to compensate?
 

Phantom

Full Member

Messages
106
A cheaper and easier solution could be a side loading trailer. You won’t need to change your van with the associated monetary loss, but you may need to get a towbar fitted.
Also, it will give you 3 axles, so French toll charges might be higher.
I won't go there at all. Towing anything just does not appeal to me, if fact I only see it as a hindrance. There was a towbar fitted, alone it an extra put 60 kgs on the rear axle so I removed it.
 

Phantom

Full Member

Messages
106
I guess that the Alko chassis garage extension limit of 150 kgs is neither here nor there and more just to cover themselves. It's certainly has no issues carrying 250 kgs, or is that a good reason to change vehicles? So if uprating to 4t suffices then apart from the several hundred pounds for the paper exercise then I guess that I would just need to fit heavier load rated tyres on the back? If this MH was originally rated at 3850 kgs and then since downrated then is there an easier (cheaper) way to revert it? I think that some people have done this themselves without going through SV Tech?
 

grath

Full Member

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2,550
I guess that the Alko chassis garage extension limit of 150 kgs is neither here nor there and more just to cover themselves. It's certainly has no issues carrying 250 kgs, or is that a good reason to change vehicles? So if uprating to 4t suffices then apart from the several hundred pounds for the paper exercise then I guess that I would just need to fit heavier load rated tyres on the back? If this MH was originally rated at 3850 kgs and then since downrated then is there an easier (cheaper) way to revert it? I think that some people have done this themselves without going through SV Tech?
Just to add, our Hymer Exsis 3500kg on Alko , has a 350kg garage loading and can at a price be uprated to 450kg loading, however, that won't alter the rear axle rating
Our previous 4500kg Hymer had the heavy Iveco 3 litre engine which did help balance out the leverage effect of the scooter on the rack
I still think you will really struggle to legally carry anything heavier than a light weight scooter around 100kg to 125kg, unless you carry little else and travel water free
 

nabsim

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1,864
That’s strange, my Phantom does not have an Alko chassis.

The problem going higher on the back axle could well be tyres. I have merc 15” alloy wheels and only Continental make tyres that will take the load in my size. Conti tech support are very good as were SVTech just finding info for me. Was I you I would definitely be getting advice from both of these before doing anything. I think you need ‘profession’ advice for this make and model. If yours has been changed to 16” wheels then you have a big choice of tyre make/models and it will be a lot easier.

If you do have 16” wheels can you tell me the make and source please
 

Phantom

Full Member

Messages
106
That’s strange, my Phantom does not have an Alko chassis.

The problem going higher on the back axle could well be tyres. I have merc 15” alloy wheels and only Continental make tyres that will take the load in my size. Conti tech support are very good as were SVTech just finding info for me. Was I you I would definitely be getting advice from both of these before doing anything. I think you need ‘profession’ advice for this make and model. If yours has been changed to 16” wheels then you have a big choice of tyre make/models and it will be a lot easier.

If you do have 16” wheels can you tell me the make and source please
It's the standard Merc chassis but has a lower bolt on extension where the garage is. I have 15" alloy wheels with 112 load rated tyres that match the rear axle rating. I'll make some enquiries.
 

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