Charging Leisure Batteries via EV points.

[Fifer]

Thanks Wildebus, a lot of research went into it so I’m pretty proud of the kit.

Just like everything. Each supplier has its own charging rates and some charge 50p per hour plus the KW charge and that too is set by the supplier.

Now I have used Tesco chargers as they charge 28p per KW or part thereof, the cheapest I got charged was 2p. But in Scotland, I charged overnight and was charged £1.88 to a full charge.

I have 540AH, so that is around 7300KW, so the most I’ll ever be charged is £2.05

I have also found a place near Aldridge which is 4 hours of free parking and the charge points are free too.

It's pretty simple though, you download the app that the charge point uses, (Tesco uses PodPoint), and follow the instructions. The only reason I like using Tesco or Pod Point is that I don't want to have to top up credit on a number of various apps.

Using your example of the 70W Multiplus, you will be able to charge your batteries at roughly 1KW an hour, this actually means you still have 2KW free to run down the cable, so using an air-fryer, microwave, or kettle while charging is also possible. As the cable can do 13A at 240V so just over 3000W.

All I can suggest is to read the signs and familiarise yourself with the terms and conditions of the parking.

Best regards,
Bruce

I personally feel that it is wrong that there are free charging points for ev. We are all paying expensive charges for electric at the moment, so why not charge ev users. Why should those owners get it for free? If it is such a small amount to pay for charging , ev users, don't be so mean & just pay! It is annoying to hear ev owners, in general news terms, moan about having to pay to charge their vehicles. I say, don't be so tight!

 

[nabsim]

Hi Nabsim,

The words they use are something along the lines of, "Please use a cable supplier by your manufacturer for your vehicle." A user will need "A cable suitable for their vehicle, access to the app, and a top-up payment method." They never actually stipulate that it has to be an EV.

Now there are technical arguments about the motorhome being an EV, but I'm not going to get into that as it's just a potential for disagreements.

The only restriction I have discovered is that the bays are restricted to EVs only. This means we're definitely not allowed to park within the EV bays and this could attract a fine. However, most bays are sandwiched between two normal vehicle bays which we are usually allowed to use. That's why I have opted for a 10M cable rather than the initial prototype which was just 6M. It wasn't quite long enough to successfully park in most bays. However, since having the 10M cable, I have been able to park alongside the EV bays without issue.

Also, when I sell a cable I request that you disconnect your cable if all ports are being used and an EV user arrives for charging.

Best regards,
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

You are taking this from the info at or around the charge point rather than the providers full terms and conditions are you? I checked two providers and both stated electric vehicles only?

I was interested when I saw these as power five months of the year is a problem for me but I am still not sure what I am reading is correct enough to splash out.

 

[wildebus]

I personally feel that it is wrong that there are free charging points for ev. We are all paying expensive charges for electric at the moment, so why not charge ev users. Why should those owners get it for free? If it is such a small amount to pay for charging , ev users, don't be so mean & just pay! It is annoying to hear ev owners, in general news terms, moan about having to pay to charge their vehicles. I say, don't be so tight!

Remember the small amount Bruce is quoting is the power to charge a Leisure battery in a Motorhome. An EV battery is way larger and the charge charges charged will be much proportionally larger.

PS. EV owners moaning about having to pay to charge their vehicles? Wait until next month when they will have to start paying Road Tax like us mere mortals!

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I'm not sure I see the point, the alternator will charge the battery when driving and even at this time of year my 85w panel also charges the battery so why do we need to use a valuable EV charging point and piss people off, not to mention the cost @ £195 to buy a cable, as leccy numpty wouldn't putting in a lot of amps very quickly cause battery damage?

 

[Bruce Lauderdale]

Hi Bruce,

You are taking this from the info at or around the charge point rather than the providers full terms and conditions are you? I checked two providers and both stated electric vehicles only?

I was interested when I saw these as power five months of the year is a problem for me but I am still not sure what I am reading is correct enough to splash out.

Hi Namsim,

I read Pod Points' terms and conditions on their website. As well as charging etiquette mentioned on their website.

PodPoint is in the business to make money, and if PodPoints are standing empty in the early morning and late time slots they would be happy to generate income.

Terms :: Pod Point

The Pod Point Network gives EV drivers the opportunity to charge at thousands of charging bays across the UK.

charge.pod-point.com

Kind regards,
Bruce

 

[CriftinsCampers]

Here's a screen shot from facebook from a few weeks ago of someone using a pod point.
It had gained 184 comments within two hours before the post was, I think, deleted, by the groups admin.



You can be pretty certain he will have posted that to many more private groups as well where a lot of the worst of the free loaders hangout!

Some of these freeloaders will be discussing how they could access the contractors inside the machines I guess if some are happy to take an angle grinder to a height barrier it won’t be long before we see same done to charge points!

A fair proportion of the comments were from honest people who thought it was well out of order but look how many thumbs up it got!

He even included a link to the type of cable that can be bought, which costs £138

He would need to help himself to a fair bit of free electricity before it pays for itself, (assuming his isn't a stolen cable that he has done a diy job on obviously!)

Some ev charge points don’t seem to properly lock cables and stolen ones already sell well on the worlds biggest source of stolen goods eBay. Cables are also going missing during servicing.

A cable is relative easy to adapt and Increasingly people are also cashing in on making and selling them as well either from parts or from stolen cables.

The most expensive part is the type 2 connector the rest is simple to buy and assemble.

I have posted about this disappointing but inevitable behaviour several times over the last few months because I did think it was going to happen Especially once more and more people start publishing how to in threads like this.

At a minimum to EV owners, look after your cables! check they are locked in at both ends etc so it can't go walkies.

EV charge points are heavily in demand, and this silly behaviour will absolutely further harm public opinion of van owners, the free ones are now extremely rare, the cheapest are now >20p kw most average >50p kw so the cost of charging a leisure battery bank has to be measured in hours of obstructing a charge point rather than the cost of the electricity.

Many EV charge points in car parks also have the same parking fees and or a maximum time before an overstay penalty.

New charge points are often covered by internal or external cameras to detect spoonfeds iceing them, this behaviour was often the bane of EV drivers in the early days because many companies installed them for PR reasons, too close to shop entrances etc and we all know how many low life’s already love to park in disabled and child bays so a convenient ev bay was fair game!

Currently EV charge points are car sized spaces, if people are going to adopt this idiotic behaviour in huge vans then please be considerate of the fact most vans simply will not fit and when an EV owner does turn up with a flat battery do the decent thing and leave, failure to do so could well lead to an altercation or vehicle damage.

There are nasty EV owners out there just the same as there are nasty van owners, ice cars in EV points do get vandalised, don’t leave your van unattended if intending to waste your money on one of these cables

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Oddly I asked about people stealing EV from chargers outside peoples homes the other day.

 

[wildebus]

Here's a screen shot from facebook from a few weeks ago of someone using a pod point.
It had gained 184 comments within two hours before the post was, I think, deleted, by the groups admin.

View attachment 66102

You can be pretty certain he will have posted that to many more private groups as well where a lot of the worst of the free loaders hangout!

Some of these freeloaders will be discussing how they could access the contractors inside the machines I guess if some are happy to take an angle grinder to a height barrier it won’t be long before we see same done to charge points!

Just out of curisoity, why is a van plugging into an EV charge point any more of a freeloader than an EV plugging into the same free charge point?

A fair proportion of the comments were from honest people who thought it was well out of order but look how many thumbs up it got!

See reply above

He even included a link to the type of cable that can be bought, which costs £138

He would need to help himself to a fair bit of free electricity before it pays for itself, (assuming his isn't a stolen cable that he has done a diy job on obviously!)

Best make sure his van hasn't been build on a nicked van as well, obviously. Remember to do a VIN check

Some ev charge points don’t seem to properly lock cables and stolen ones already sell well on the worlds biggest source of stolen goods eBay. Cables are also going missing during servicing.

yup, need to look after everything, not just cables. seen those reports of cars in Birmingham that get stripped of parts within hours of being parked in the city centre? not even blooming EV cars either!

A cable is relative easy to adapt and Increasingly people are also cashing in on making and selling them as well either from parts or from stolen cables.

The most expensive part is the type 2 connector the rest is simple to buy and assemble.

I have posted about this disappointing but inevitable behaviour several times over the last few months because I did think it was going to happen Especially once more and more people start publishing how to in threads like this.

At a minimum to EV owners, look after your cables! check they are locked in at both ends etc so it can't go walkies.

Given that the vast majority of EV points are only used by EV owners, it is the EV owners who will in the great majority be doing the nicking of cables and the buying on eBay of the stolen goods.

EV charge points are heavily in demand, and this silly behaviour will absolutely further harm public opinion of van owners, the free ones are now extremely rare, the cheapest are now >20p kw most average >50p kw so the cost of charging a leisure battery bank has to be measured in hours of obstructing a charge point rather than the cost of the electricity.

Many EV charge points in car parks also have the same parking fees and or a maximum time before an overstay penalty.

Relevance?

New charge points are often covered by internal or external cameras to detect spoonfeds iceing them, this behaviour was often the bane of EV drivers in the early days because many companies installed them for PR reasons, too close to shop entrances etc and we all know how many low life’s already love to park in disabled and child bays so a convenient ev bay was fair game!

Just curious to know what "spoonfeds iceing them" means? is this a typo or some kind of newspeak? sorry, not down with the kids

Currently EV charge points are car sized spaces, if people are going to adopt this idiotic behaviour in huge vans then please be considerate of the fact most vans simply will not fit and when an EV owner does turn up with a flat battery do the decent thing and leave, failure to do so could well lead to an altercation or vehicle damage.

Most EV charge points I have seen have clearly stated it is a place for ONLY EV cars to stop which are also charging. i.e. an EV car not on charge must vacate. so you won't find vans parked in them.
this needs to change actually and the spaces will need to be bigger to accomodate electric vans that are starting to get produced.

There are nasty EV owners out there just the same as there are nasty van owners, ice cars in EV points do get vandalised, don’t leave your van unattended if intending to waste your money on one of these cables

 

[nabsim]

I don’t see any harm in using the ev charging points when ev aren’t there. You are paying for your electric so it’s not stealing and if charge points are empty out of hours it’s extra revenue.

I just need to convince myself it’s not in breach of terms and conditions. Saying that I get by fine running my generator in poor solar when I need to top up so can afford to sit back and watch

 

[nabsim]

I'm not sure I see the point, the alternator will charge the battery when driving and even at this time of year my 85w panel also charges the battery so why do we need to use a valuable EV charging point and piss people off, not to mention the cost @ £195 to buy a cable, as leccy numpty wouldn't putting in a lot of amps very quickly cause battery damage?

It’s all down to the individual set up Pudsey. I have been parked up on a byway 8 days now and had to run my genny for an hour and a half twice. Even when I am moving my B2B puts 30a out and I use 65ah every day. Parked two days I need to run over four hours.

This time of year most days Solar is not doing much at all. At least my 300W flat on the roof is t

 

[marchie]

Perhaps the most important point here is one of perception. There have been other Threads where [local] public opinion is against 'Freeloading Motorhomers' and local residents have lobbied Councils to install height barriers, 'No Overnight Parking' signs, whilst in other locations [some, I regret to say, in Scotland] Motorhomes have been damaged, by residents who feel we are all a bunch of sewage dumping freeloaders. A motorhome charging from an EV point, whether paid for or not [but especially if the T&Cs state 'for recharging EVs only'], is unlikely to reduce this perception of 'something for nothing'

Steve

 

[GeoffL]

For me, and many others, this is a non-starter simply because our vans won't fit in an EV bay. This is the same issue that has me dreading the day when we're forced to switch to EV motorhomes. Unlike caravanners, we can't unhitch the habitation area and just take the front end to a charge point.

 

[wildebus]

For me, and many others, this is a non-starter simply because our vans won't fit in an EV bay. This is the same issue that has me dreading the day when we're forced to switch to EV motorhomes. Unlike caravanners, we can't unhitch the habitation area and just take the front end to a charge point.

even if they DID fit, you should/would not park in one as they are reserved for EV vehicles.

 

[mistericeman]

Perhaps the most important point here is one of perception. There have been other Threads where [local] public opinion is against 'Freeloading Motorhomers' and local residents have lobbied Councils to install height barriers, 'No Overnight Parking' signs, whilst in other locations [some, I regret to say, in Scotland] Motorhomes have been damaged, by residents who feel we are all a bunch of sewage dumping freeloaders. A motorhome charging from an EV point, whether paid for or not [but especially if the T&Cs state 'for recharging EVs only'], is unlikely to reduce this perception of 'something for nothing'

Steve

I'm right there with you ...

Perception of what motorhomes/campervans mean to folks outside the hobby isn't exactly great at the moment after being further stirred up just post Covid with inconsiderate people acting inconsiderately ...

I can only see it being made worse by being seen parked (legitimately or not) in or near a EV charging point .

Yes the argument about them lying unused for large periods is valid BUT so are parking spaces in carparks ...
And that seems to irritate none motorhomers enough .

Generally I can't see much of a need for the use of EV charge points ....

Summer our solar copes easily
Winter we move around plenty for the B2B to do its work ...
And IF we're really low on power we find a nice reasonably priced CL/CS and do a utility night (water/waste/toilet/electric )in a nice location .

 

[GeoffL]

even if they DID fit, you should/would not park in one as they are reserved for EV vehicles.

This to my post:

For me, and many others, this is a non-starter simply because our vans won't fit in an EV bay. This is the same issue that has me dreading the day when we're forced to switch to EV motorhomes. Unlike caravanners, we can't unhitch the habitation area and just take the front end to a charge point.

Er... I was talking about EV motorhomes and EV towcars. You can see via YouTube the shenanigans that tuggers who tow with an EV have to go through to recharge:

1. Find somewhere to leave the caravan that still lets you return to a charge point. Also you need to ensure that you can return to hook up the caravan after. This is almost impossible on many motorway services where the caravan area is separate to the car parking/EV charging and there is a one-way system.
2. Unhitch the caravan and drive to a charge point.
3. Charge (if the point is actually working)
4. Return to the caravan (if it hasn't been stolen).
5. Hitch up and leave.

Now consider how a 7m long EV motorhome is supposed to recharge...

 

[Pudsey Bear]

And again £195 for the lead. that would go a good way to a decent solar setup, not all the way granted, but to use the lead effectively I'd expect there to be at least two LBs to make good use of it.

 

[wildebus]

This to my post:

Er... I was talking about EV motorhomes and EV towcars. You can see via YouTube the shenanigans that tuggers who tow with an EV have to go through to recharge:

1. Find somewhere to leave the caravan that still lets you return to a charge point. Also you need to ensure that you can return to hook up the caravan after. This is almost impossible on many motorway services where the caravan area is separate to the car parking/EV charging and there is a one-way system.
2. Unhitch the caravan and drive to a charge point.
3. Charge (if the point is actually working)
4. Return to the caravan (if it hasn't been stolen).
5. Hitch up and leave.

Now consider how a 7m long EV motorhome is supposed to recharge...

By the time EV motorhomes are anywhere near commonplace, EV commerical Vans will be far more numerous and EV charging points will have been created/adapted for them.
Why worry about something that is not going to happen for quite a long time and by the time it does happen will have be resolved anyway almost certainly? (sounds like you have more pressing things on your mind to concern yourself about like caravan security).

 

[wildebus]

And again £195 for the lead. that would go a good way to a decent solar setup, not all the way granted, but to use the lead effectively I'd expect there to be at least two LBs to make good use of it.

solar in winter ... an irrelvance really even if you had 1,000W on the roof.
to make good use of a charge lead like Bruce is talking about, it is not really so much the leisure batteries as the chargers fitted to charge them. That is often the weak link, especially with people just replacing Lead with Lithium and not upgrading the existing chargers means they have a very inefficient system to start with. If someone was getting this lead, I would suggest to them they had a minimum of a 50A charger and if they had Lead Batteries don't try and charge them unless down to at least 50% DoD so the charger will be working at the highest output.

 

[CriftinsCampers]

When these sort of threads started doing the rounds a few years ago the vast majority of type 2 charge points were free.

Obviously that appealed to certain elements of the community but at the time the type 2 connectors were silly money. For some with deep pockets the curiosity factor and sadly the relatively small scale trade in stolen cables did enable some to exploit the charge points.

The vast majority of posts I have read more recently are based on the incorrect perception these points are still free and it is pretty obvious their emphasis is on getting something for free, charging £150+ for a simple cable will put the vast majority of those people off fortunately.

Obstructing EV charge points is nothing new the zap map app is full of pictures and tales of altercations.
Sadly some are also badly positioned or protected many are damaged by incompetent reversing etc

I have seen a Caravan and it tug obstructing a row of charge points whilst plugged in and cooking dinner and I have seen the altercation that broke out as a result, it wasn’t pleasant.

For an EV owner there is always the what if scenario when needing to charge.

Is it iced
Is it in use
Is it broken

Usually in that order so approaching a charge point is psychologically a perceived negative experience, a classic trigger for potential road (EV?) rage.

For the business model to work I don’t think there will ever be too many of these things so queuing for a legitimate vehicle to finish and hopefully leave will remain a regular occurrence.

However in the future we will increasingly be seeing electric vans so we will also see more appropriate ev charge point locations with larger bays, these will obviously cater eventually for EV based motor homes with all electric services as well

It inevitable and logical that whilst charging an true EV motorhome, for what could be an hour or so, to make use of the power to cook or heat a Calorifier. Yes it extends the overall charge time by a few minutes but it is no different to me sittting in my car whilst charging with the AC on etc. Assuming the charging or independent car park t&c’s don’t expressly forbid certain actions especially the risk associated with cooking.

So long term it will become acceptable practice.

There’s a few things that worry me about the current practice though which I mentioned in my previous post but whilst walking the dog the following occurred to me

Is there anything in BS7671 that specifically covers off connecting a non EV type vehicle to an EVSE via an non approved diy or third party bloke in shed type of adapter?

This could be important from a safety (earth bonding or the lack of being such a contentious subject despite the clear requirement in the regs) and insurance perspective.

Imagine if the van decided to go up in smoke and the fire was identified as the result of the mains equipment being used and or the cable itself.

The claim wouldn’t just extend to the van, in all probability the charge point would be destroyed and if that is located in the typical cluster of multi mode setups with high kw units alongside, plus any adjacent charging vehicles I really do wonder if a van’s insurer would cover it.

I can imagine a loss adjuster having a field day with that.

 

[maingate]

This to my post:

Er... I was talking about EV motorhomes and EV towcars. You can see via YouTube the shenanigans that tuggers who tow with an EV have to go through to recharge:

1. Find somewhere to leave the caravan that still lets you return to a charge point. Also you need to ensure that you can return to hook up the caravan after. This is almost impossible on many motorway services where the caravan area is separate to the car parking/EV charging and there is a one-way system.
2. Unhitch the caravan and drive to a charge point.
3. Charge (if the point is actually working)
4. Return to the caravan (if it hasn't been stolen).
5. Hitch up and leave.

Now consider how a 7m long EV motorhome is supposed to recharge...

Your post got me thinking .... a rare thing these days.

How long before Caravan owners come up with an adaptor that will trickle charge their EV from the hookup point on a site?

This could lead to a lot of 240V usage and the subsequent hike in hookup fees on sites.