Running the inverter through the 240 outlets

Trotter

Trotter

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I’m putting an inverter into the van, primarily to charge the electric bike battery. It seemed pointless to just put one in just big enough, so I’ll go 1500 / 3000. That way I’ll be able to boil a low wattage kettle, power laptop, phones and odds and ends. If there’s sunshine, along with my 270ah of battery,that should be feasible.
What I’d like to achieve is to use the existing 240 outlets in the van. This hopefully would, 1, save having to have extension leads lying about, I will fall over these. And 2, save routing new sockets into the van.
I reckon it would be possible to interrupt the 240 cable, somewhere near the consumer unit using an on/off/on switch. On1= Ehu and On2, inverter power. The off being, off. Lol.
Anyone fancy putting their thinking heads on?
Thanks in advance.
 
No you have to put power through the trip or run a earth spike or ground plate otherwise.
Use a up charger for laptop & phones through unit as picy.
What you wish to do can be done with proper 2 way switch behind in power socket through a 2 way switch before entering trips/fuse centre

4 way panel.pngvoltage change switch.png
 
trevskoda said:
No you have to put power through the trip or run a earth spike or ground plate otherwise.
Use a up charger for laptop & phones through unit as picy.
What you wish to do can be done with proper 2 way switch behind in power socket through a 2 way switch before entering trips/fuse centre
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice.
Picture 1 is already sorted.
Picture 2 is the type of switch I had in mind. With 8 connectors l’m pretty sure I can isolate the two separate feeds.
Are you saying I should interrupt the 240 before the consumer unit? That’s going to be fun.
Still open to ideas.
 
Trotter said:
I’m putting an inverter into the van, primarily to charge the electric bike battery. It seemed pointless to just put one in just big enough, so I’ll go 1500 / 3000. That way I’ll be able to boil a low wattage kettle, power laptop, phones and odds and ends. If there’s sunshine, along with my 270ah of battery,that should be feasible.
What I’d like to achieve is to use the existing 240 outlets in the van. This hopefully would, 1, save having to have extension leads lying about, I will fall over these. And 2, save routing new sockets into the van.
I reckon it would be possible to interrupt the 240 cable, somewhere near the consumer unit using an on/off/on switch. On1= Ehu and On2, inverter power. The off being, off. Lol.
Anyone fancy putting their thinking heads on?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
If you want the system to switch automatically between the Inverter and EHU, then you could use what is called a 'Contactor', which is essentially a auto 240V relay.
The way you could wire this is you have the "NC" - Normally Closed - inputs on the EHU incoming line; and the "NO" - Normally Open - inputs on the Inverter Line. and the output going to the sockets. Then the sockets will be connected to the EHU, but if the Contactor senses the inverter is on, it switches to using the Inverter as the source and you are automatically switched.
I used one of these on my last conversion to avoid having two sets of sockets.
This is an example of a Contactor - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-pole-Contactor-40-Amp-240V-Hager-ES240/123657869717
(you MUST get a double-pole one so you are fully disconnecting live and neutral)

If you are ok with manually switching between the two, then this switch is designed specifically for the type of function you are after - a double-pole Changeover switch - MAINS IN would be the EHU, and GEN IN would be from the Inverter. These are also quite often used in conversions as a Polarity switchover. Again you must get a Changeover switch that does Live and Neutral for safety.

46946

125 Amp Changeover Switch with Busbar, Generator / Mains Transfer, Single Phase, Din Rail Mount: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

Great prices on your favourite Gardening brands, and free delivery on eligible orders.
amzn.to

You need a 4-gang consumer unit to install this - here is an example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schneide...closure-Weather-Proof-IP65-13441/231839837158
 
You could also use an automatic crossover switch, similar to these https://sterling-power.com/collecti...ucts/32a-ac-automatic-crossover-switch-exdemo but again would still need to locate the mains input cable , ie remove it from the consumer unit and wire into the crossover switch shore power terminals, your inverter would connect to the gen power terminals , the output from the switch into your consumer unit, I also normally wire the mains input cable through a trip etc before wiring to the crossover switch
 
A 1500/3000 watt inverter looks way over the top for your needs other than the kettle which would be more efficiently heated on gas. I charge my bike battery from a 150watt, modified sine inverter with no problems and all the other items you mentioned are from USB adapters. I did, and still have in the garage, a 2000watt unit that was used very infrequently for the hair dryer and that was all. It was wired to power the normal sockets and was able to run a microwave but caned the batteries. Changed MH and thats why its now in the garage. Suggest you look at your energy needs before attempting a complicated system which I would respectively suggest you get assistance from a competent person.
 
Trotter said:
I’m putting an inverter into the van, primarily to charge the electric bike battery. It seemed pointless to just put one in just big enough, so I’ll go 1500 / 3000. That way I’ll be able to boil a low wattage kettle, power laptop, phones and odds and ends. If there’s sunshine, along with my 270ah of battery,that should be feasible.
What I’d like to achieve is to use the existing 240 outlets in the van. This hopefully would, 1, save having to have extension leads lying about, I will fall over these. And 2, save routing new sockets into the van.
I reckon it would be possible to interrupt the 240 cable, somewhere near the consumer unit using an on/off/on switch. On1= Ehu and On2, inverter power. The off being, off. Lol.
Anyone fancy putting their thinking heads on?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
You could use an inverter with auto transfer (pass through) built in like this https://www.criticalpowersupplies.c...fFDZj4XpCCrc0sYRRph6aQ5TNAPEYwvsaAheLEALw_wcB.

I have a Waeco Easy Cool inverter with this feature that came with the roof top aircon, and works fine supplying all the sockets when the mains is disconnected.
 
clarkpeacock said:
You could use an inverter with auto transfer (pass through) built in like this https://www.criticalpowersupplies.c...fFDZj4XpCCrc0sYRRph6aQ5TNAPEYwvsaAheLEALw_wcB.

I have a Waeco Easy Cool inverter with this feature that came with the roof top aircon, and works fine supplying all the sockets when the mains is disconnected.
Click to expand...
Interesting product. Sold by a UK company from a .co.uk Website but has this warning ...
"This product is not sutable for the UK use and has is not CE approved. " :rolleyes:

They do have similar ones without that warning though :)
 
FULL TIMER said:
You could also use an automatic crossover switch, similar to these https://sterling-power.com/collecti...ucts/32a-ac-automatic-crossover-switch-exdemo but again would still need to locate the mains input cable , ie remove it from the consumer unit and wire into the crossover switch shore power terminals, your inverter would connect to the gen power terminals , the output from the switch into your consumer unit, I also normally wire the mains input cable through a trip etc before wiring to the crossover switch
Click to expand...
That looks a handy bit of kit Colin, I like the way it can disable the onboard charger if inverter is used.
 
shortcircuit said:
A 1500/3000 watt inverter looks way over the top for your needs other than the kettle which would be more efficiently heated on gas. I charge my bike battery from a 150watt, modified sine inverter with no problems and all the other items you mentioned are from USB adapters. I did, and still have in the garage, a 2000watt unit that was used very infrequently for the hair dryer and that was all. It was wired to power the normal sockets and was able to run a microwave but caned the batteries. Changed MH and thats why its now in the garage. Suggest you look at your energy needs before attempting a complicated system which I would respectively suggest you get assistance from a competent person.
Click to expand...
I have a 300W inverter that had been in the van almost since I got it and was never used. About two months ago I decided to try it and it charges my scooter batteries no problem, it also charges laptops.

Unless you are going to expand your solar Del or only ever going to be long weekend trips I would question the worth of doing this. It’s a lot of messing and upfront cost for a cup of tea.
 
You are confusing me here. I thought I was suggesting he looks at his energy needs before contemplating any complicated system???
 
shortcircuit said:
You are confusing me here. I thought I was suggesting he looks at his energy needs before contemplating any complicated system???
Click to expand...
Yes it is WAY over the top. Built in belt and braces. Some time ago I bought a 150w inverter, thinking it would do , not so. This time, I’ve plenty of spare capacity.
 
nabsim said:
I have a 300W inverter that had been in the van almost since I got it and was never used. About two months ago I decided to try it and it charges my scooter batteries no problem, it also charges laptops.

Unless you are going to expand your solar Del or only ever going to be long weekend trips I would question the worth of doing this. It’s a lot of messing and upfront cost for a cup of tea.
Click to expand...
Yup. Going to KISS atm. I was hoping to use some of my kettle collection. ??
Keep it simple stupid
 
Trotter said:
Yup. Going to KISS atm. I was hoping to use some of my kettle collection. ??
Keep it simple stupid
Click to expand...
The only problem I have Del is if it’s cloudy for a few days and I haven’t moved, I have got around that now though. Saying that I don’t have to charge the scooter very often anyway. This would be the same no matter what size inverter I had or how it was wired.
 
All these different supplies can make it fun and games.
With our "Murky" the leisure side takes priority as it's running a domestic fridge via an inverter.
To this inverter we have a mains ring circuit for sockets and other small mains loads.
When "Murky" is connected to external mains a relay isolates the inverter supply from the circuit and connects to the incoming mains. Each side of the relay has a neon bulb connected to it to show the circuit is live and where the power is coming from.
In the line from external mains before the relay is a mains plug and socket enabling is to be manually disconnected.
We also have another larger inverter connected to the engine start batteries.
It is possible in the event of not enough leisure battery capacity left and no external mains connection, to connect the engine inverter. This is done by disconnecting the plug from the incoming socket and placing it in the mains inverter socket. Doing this also allows the fridge to be run from the engine when solar levels of supply are low.

It sounds confusing and confuses me, but the idea was to keep it simple, safe and easy. We've tried to use as many domestic switches as possible to make replacements easy to find.

If anyone has a better cheap, simple solution I'd be interested.

Mark
 
We regularly carry out this kind of install when we install the inverters we supply here, but have always suggested on not having the auto-transfer switch when the inverter size is below 800w constant output. If you think about it logically, most travel gear that's 240v is normally about 750w and above, so things like a kettle you want working in a safe place like your kitchen top, but if your using a small inverter just to charge say your e-bikes on the move, then you would normally just have that to hand near the leisure batteries as and when you need it. We find this can take away the temptation/forgetfulness of plugging something in that is over the inverter's rating and overloading/damaging the inverter.
Carrying out this kind of transfer equipment isn't a 5 min thing and when you are using big inverters, we would always have the output from the unit protected by some means of an RCD along with the equipment we use to have the mains sockets switched over when using the inverter. We have also found that early Euro built M/H's only have MCB's installed, so normally recommend to upgrade them at the same time.
Now with the use of the inverter then comes high consumption of the leisure batteries, in which you should be monitoring them with a good battery computer, one that shows you an AH counter along with percentage that is coming directly from the batteries using a shunt metering device (not relying on factory equipment that can be very basic with some m/h's).
Putting power back in...………………………… well that's a whole different topic, one that you may want to look at other posts discussing things like VSR relays and B2B/DC-DC chargers along with solar recommendations.

Off Grid should always be looked at like a pyramid:-
- Foundations are your Leisure battery Bank and Monitoring them,
- Power demands, whether you're just needing to attend to tech equipment, or bigger demands like Microwaves/Hair Dryers/Kettles etc,
- Replenishing the power, assessing if you're a Sun Chaser and Solar is your poison, or you're an all-rounder so you need better engine charging support, with solar assistance or you want to use a generator.
 
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