Running the inverter through the 240 outlets

[wildebus]

Wouldn't you need a double pole double throw version of this?

I think I didn't look at the product on that ebay listing carefully enough, just did a search for an example
This is the type of Contactor required ....

Product Page | travelvolts

www.travelvolts.net

 

[Trotter]

Omg ! What have I started?
Sorry all, Nabs hit on the head when he said it’s a lot of trouble to go to for a cup of tea.
Me? I’m going back to the drawing board.

 

[Monckyman]

All these different supplies can make it fun and games.
With our "Murky" the leisure side takes priority as it's running a domestic fridge via an inverter.
To this inverter we have a mains ring circuit for sockets and other small mains loads.
When "Murky" is connected to external mains a relay isolates the inverter supply from the circuit and connects to the incoming mains. Each side of the relay has a neon bulb connected to it to show the circuit is live and where the power is coming from.
In the line from external mains before the relay is a mains plug and socket enabling is to be manually disconnected.
We also have another larger inverter connected to the engine start batteries.
It is possible in the event of not enough leisure battery capacity left and no external mains connection, to connect the engine inverter. This is done by disconnecting the plug from the incoming socket and placing it in the mains inverter socket. Doing this also allows the fridge to be run from the engine when solar levels of supply are low.

It sounds confusing and confuses me, but the idea was to keep it simple, safe and easy. We've tried to use as many domestic switches as possible to make replacements easy to find.

If anyone has a better cheap, simple solution I'd be interested.

Mark

The really simple solution is..
Interrupt your mains feed directly after the rcd/ consumer unit.
Put a 240v plug socket on it and a 240v plug on the other end.
Put your inverter next to it, or run the output to where the interrupt is with a 240v socket on it.
You now have two sockets(the EHU and the inverter) and one plug.(the feed to the van outlets).
Now you can simply plug your van socket feed into either the EHU or the Inverter output .
It’s not automatic but it costs pennies and is very easy to do.

 

[shortcircuit]

This is very similar as to how I did it, however not always possible to get to the output side of the RCD as combined in Sergent unit. Just interrupt the incoming supply before the consumer unit and fit the two sockets as suggested.

 

[Trotter]

The really simple solution is..
Interrupt your mains feed directly after the rcd/ consumer unit.
Put a 240v plug socket on it and a 240v plug on the other end.
Put your inverter next to it, or run the output to where the interrupt is with a 240v socket on it.
You now have two sockets(the EHU and the inverter) and one plug.(the feed to the van outlets).
Now you can simply plug your van socket feed into either the EHU or the Inverter output .
It’s not automatic but it costs pennies and is very easy to do.

This is what I thought I’d do first off.
Now I’m going to put the inverter in with its own dedicated 2 gang switch. After all, it’s only a panel van ( don’t tell it that, it thinks it’s way better than that, it can be very sensitive), it’s not like I’ve got to walk into another room to access the socket.
To many people trying to blind me with science. Although, even if I don’t understand most of what is said, any help I’m given, is appreciated and taken in the manner it was given.

 

[SquirrellCook]

The really simple solution is..
Interrupt your mains feed directly after the rcd/ consumer unit.
Put a 240v plug socket on it and a 240v plug on the other end.
Put your inverter next to it, or run the output to where the interrupt is with a 240v socket on it.
You now have two sockets(the EHU and the inverter) and one plug.(the feed to the van outlets).
Now you can simply plug your van socket feed into either the EHU or the Inverter output .
It’s not automatic but it costs pennies and is very easy to do.

Our existing system is done this way with our bigger 24volt inverter from the starter batteries. The smaller 12volt inverter is auto switched with a relay and can be manually overridden with a switch. Though never being able to put 240volts up the 12volt inverters bum. If you hunt around there seems to be a few nice relays that will mount on a DIN rail. Ideally each power source should be protected by a RCD. The new idea is to put the switching and protection in domestic consumer units. The Hager ERC418 looks good for the job, but expensive from Hager. Have found much cheaper, but not in the uk. Non of the relays seem to be DPDT so I opted for 4 poles two NC and two NO. with this you should be able to wire it as DPDT.

Mark hoping it makes sense.

 

[Trotter]

Not sure where you lost me. Think it was after the word “ bigger”?

 

[Yeoblade]

The really simple solution is..
Interrupt your mains feed directly after the rcd/ consumer unit.
Put a 240v plug socket on it and a 240v plug on the other end.
Put your inverter next to it, or run the output to where the interrupt is with a 240v socket on it.
You now have two sockets(the EHU and the inverter) and one plug.(the feed to the van outlets).
Now you can simply plug your van socket feed into either the EHU or the Inverter output .
It’s not automatic but it costs pennies and is very easy to do.

Why would you want to take the rcd out of the circuit?

 

[Trotter]

We regularly carry out this kind of install when we install the inverters we supply here, but have always suggested on not having the auto-transfer switch when the inverter size is below 800w constant output. If you think about it logically, most travel gear that's 240v is normally about 750w and above, so things like a kettle you want working in a safe place like your kitchen top, but if your using a small inverter just to charge say your e-bikes on the move, then you would normally just have that to hand near the leisure batteries as and when you need it. We find this can take away the temptation/forgetfulness of plugging something in that is over the inverter's rating and overloading/damaging the inverter.
Carrying out this kind of transfer equipment isn't a 5 min thing and when you are using big inverters, we would always have the output from the unit protected by some means of an RCD along with the equipment we use to have the mains sockets switched over when using the inverter. We have also found that early Euro built M/H's only have MCB's installed, so normally recommend to upgrade them at the same time.
Now with the use of the inverter then comes high consumption of the leisure batteries, in which you should be monitoring them with a good battery computer, one that shows you an AH counter along with percentage that is coming directly from the batteries using a shunt metering device (not relying on factory equipment that can be very basic with some m/h's).
Putting power back in...………………………… well that's a whole different topic, one that you may want to look at other posts discussing things like VSR relays and B2B/DC-DC chargers along with solar recommendations.

Off Grid should always be looked at like a pyramid:-
- Foundations are your Leisure battery Bank and Monitoring them,
- Power demands, whether you're just needing to attend to tech equipment, or bigger demands like Microwaves/Hair Dryers/Kettles etc,
- Replenishing the power, assessing if you're a Sun Chaser and Solar is your poison, or you're an all-rounder so you need better engine charging support, with solar assistance or you want to use a generator.

Phew. That’s pretty comprehensive init.
Brings to mind a question I asked a while back. “ When do you stop spending on your motor home?
What I do know is that the inverter I’ve put in is more than man enough for anything I’ll probably ever need. I don’t want or need a microwave, I’ve insufficient hair to worry about a hair dryer or straighteners.
Thanks again to all who added to this. I am going to keep it simple

 

[dalspa]

Today I’m wiring up my new inverter (1200w pure sine wave) which is specifically for charging up ebike battery. A couple of days ago I fitted the inverter in the locker near to the leisure battery and a heavy duty isolation switch directly above, in the habitation area, with all holes drilled ready for the cables. I will then fit a short lead from the inverters socket to a dedicated new socket in the habitation area, adjacent to the isolation switch. The isolation switch will act as the on/off switch to the inverter.
Although the inverter is fitted adjacent to the battery it is at the far end to the terminals such that the 700mm long cables (supplied with the inverter) are much too short so I have had to get some new ones made up, being 400mm (battery to fuse), 900mm (fuse to switch), and 900mm (switch to inverter) on positive and 1.3m return on negative. The supplied cables were puny 10mm square (I queried this with the English manufacturer/supplier who was adamant that this was correct for short run!) but I had the new cables made at 25mm square. Although the inverter is way oversize for the ebike charging it will enable other uses at a later date, if needed.
Hopefully, our 100w solar panel and 190Ah battery will be able to comfortably top up/recharge the ebike battery. The bike will only be used during the summer period and during the day using the solar facility and also when travelling.

 

[wildebus]

Ref your comment on the supplied cables, I have yet to come across an Inverter that has the cables supllied with it as standard AND are up to snuff. They are invariably undersized and also typically poor quality (they are usually much stiffer then decent heavy duty flex cable).
Good idea to have an switch in line to remove power to the inverter. I tend to use a relay to control the power into the inverter. This lets you have the switch (for the relay) where ever you like using lightweight cable and keeping the heavy cable run as short as possible.

 

[trevskoda]

Thanks for the advice.
Picture 1 is already sorted.
Picture 2 is the type of switch I had in mind. With 8 connectors l’m pretty sure I can isolate the two separate feeds.
Are you saying I should interrupt the 240 before the consumer unit? That’s going to be fun.
Still open to ideas.

Yes

 

[Trotter]

Today I’m wiring up my new inverter (1200w pure sine wave) which is specifically for charging up ebike battery. A couple of days ago I fitted the inverter in the locker near to the leisure battery and a heavy duty isolation switch directly above, in the habitation area, with all holes drilled ready for the cables. I will then fit a short lead from the inverters socket to a dedicated new socket in the habitation area, adjacent to the isolation switch. The isolation switch will act as the on/off switch to the inverter.
Although the inverter is fitted adjacent to the battery it is at the far end to the terminals such that the 700mm long cables (supplied with the inverter) are much too short so I have had to get some new ones made up, being 400mm (battery to fuse), 900mm (fuse to switch), and 900mm (switch to inverter) on positive and 1.3m return on negative. The supplied cables were puny 10mm square (I queried this with the English manufacturer/supplier who was adamant that this was correct for short run!) but I had the new cables made at 25mm square. Although the inverter is way oversize for the ebike charging it will enable other uses at a later date, if needed.
Hopefully, our 100w solar panel and 190Ah battery will be able to comfortably top up/recharge the ebike battery. The bike will only be used during the summer period and during the day using the solar facility and also when travelling.

This pretty much mirrors my install. Great minds? Lol.
Although, where dalspa has put English manufacturer, read oriental for mine.