Lithium battery suppliers

Steveandjulie

Steveandjulie

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I bought a 200ah lithium battery off a lovely chap called Mark cheesman of life power batteries over a year ago it was very reasonable price and his help and support has been amazing recently the battery has been misbehaving shutting down sent screenshots of app for the battery he told me I was using old version so he sent me a link to New version and told me to fully charge battery and see what happens we went on holiday to Devon when after a day the battery shut down the new version of the app showing cell 3 was low luckily we were on ehu so could charge the battery. So emailed Mark to explain the problem he phoned me straight away and said would send a replacement battery to the holiday park we were staying at and should arrive next day and he will include a return label so I can send the old battery back when I get home the replacement battery arrived and is now in the van I just can't get over what a brilliant service mark provides and would definitely recommend his company to anyone looking for a lithium battery he has a website but I don't know how to attach link's so maybe someone can attach a link that knows how to
 
Nice to see someone providing excellent service.
I recently bought a 200A one from Renogy I doubt they will be as helpful if it were to go Pete Tong!
 
Their prices seem very reasonable. Since I'm considering swapping my 2x110Ah lead-acid leisure batteries for a single LiFePO4, I delved into the warranty details. I was disturbed to find some exclusions, e.g. the warranty is void if the battery is placed on continual float charge or stored at 100% charge. So anyone who keeps their van on EHU at home is likely to fall foul of this. I also suspect that my van might fall foul since the solar system spends almost all it's time on "float" when in storage, to and from campsites with EHU, etc. Still, £665 for 150Ah vs £689 for the 120Ah I'm also considering is attractive; and their in the same county as me!...
 
With Lifepo4 settings you won’t really go to float. I think if it’s set to 13.5v float it doesn’t do anything but my figure may be wrong so wait for David to confirm/deny.

It’s recommended to store Lifepo4 between 20% and 80% SOC but why should it void warranty at 100%? It may reduce cycle life slightly but very little, same as taking them to zero. Is it they are quoting higher cycle life than some others as staying between 20 & 80 will allow longer life. My 2x 100Ah Lifepo4 are two and a half years old now and showing 65 cycles and I am almost full time in the van. Looks like they should see my out no problem so far
 
Adversely lower the service life if left at 100% possibly. So much so as to void warranty? I would be surprised.
Same goes for 0%.
The whole point of a BMS on a Lithium Battery is that it is a Battery Management System.
 
Charging is whole new can of worms with Lithium
Ideally you need a bms with built in low temperature disconnect to stop any charging at zero C or below many of the Lithium batteries sold including the basic version of the over hyped ecotree ones (don't you just love Youtubers pushing their freebies!)

Charging via split charge is an absolute no no in my books but I know some probably do.

For me the biggest issue was via solar, my trusty Epever Tracer did not have a Lithium profile.
Yes I could have messed about with some user settings but I needed a controller to use with the panels on my Garage roof anyway (doing car battery trickle charging & running my beer fridge etc!)

So it got replaced with a Renogy Rover 40 Li because its supposed to have a Lithium Profile

This I honestly think was a waste of money the profile is imho far too aggressive it has got what they call boost which is supposed to run for fixed period of time before dropping to float.

It instead sits at this boost setting seemingly permanently at 14.4v albeit without any current flowing.
14.4V to me is far too high a voltage to have a lithium battery sitting at for several hours a day and this behaviour has been much discussed on various forums.

The consensus is to set up a user profile with lower voltages, Renogy otoh say the profiles fine but then I guess they would as if the battery is destroyed through overcharging chances are it will be well out of warranty before it becomes noticeable.
 
I know my own setup is rather unusual and you get people saying it doesn't/cannot work but I have found it actually is better than having Lead Acid batteries AND is better than having Lithium batteries - go Hybrid!
When charging a system which includes a Lithium battery, it will effectively not allow the voltage to go to the bulk maximum voltage until the Lithium battery is just about full, at which point the voltage then ramps up rapidly. As it happens, I received today a PDF for a new battery that happened to include a charge profile chart that shows this very nicely - posted a screen grab below:
LiFePO4charge.png
On my own system, I see the same pattern in practice.
And what happens with my system is that my Lithium and Lead batteries in connected in parallel, but as soon as the voltage hits 14.19V the Lithium automatically disconnects from the system so does not 'suffer' from either sitting at a high Absorption voltage or even sitting at Float.
The Lithium only reconnects when there is no charging in place (specifically when the voltage has dropped below 13.41V, which is below the Float voltage and also the Storage voltage which is present on some chargers). Whilst the Lithium is disconnected, it is just sitting there doing nothing and the Chargers continue to charge the Lead, which as we know can take a long time to get to full and then go to a Float voltage to maintain the Lead.
With this setup I have optimal charging of both Lead and Lithium batteries with a single configuration of the charger :) And the charge does not need to be Lithium compatible or have any Lithium Profiles :D

I don't fully hold with the idea of never charging Lithium above 80% or dropping below 20%. I don't disagree that doing so may well extend the life of a Lithium battery, but at the expense of loosing significant capacity. I would prefer to have the full use of the battery and just live with it only lasting 10 years instead of 12 or whatever.

Been running this for over a year now and working nicely (y)
 
wildebus said:
Adversely lower the service life if left at 100% possibly. So much so as to void warranty? I would be surprised.
Same goes for 0%.
The whole point of a BMS on a Lithium Battery is that it is a Battery Management System.
Click to expand...
This was my thoughts. The product page for the battery I'm considering is at https://www.lifebatteries.co.uk/product-page/150ah-lifepo4. They say it has an "Overkill BMS" and give this link to a review. The specs look good but I'm left wondering where there might be issues if I use the existing split-charge relay and main charger in addition to the Victron SmartSolar 75/15 controller set to its Lithium profile.
 
another plus for hybrid my set up works seamlessly lithium does all the day to day when we ask for a little more toaster hairdryer etc the lead carbon comes in to do the heavy lifting truly best of both worlds
 
@wildebus yes I have read your blog on the hybrid setup, I might give it a try myself one day. Especially if I decide not to mess about with heating pads etc for the Lithium
 
Have a look here, it won’t float, it will only take a charge if set right. Doesn’t matter what is says (bulk, absorption,float).

 
Unless you have good lead acid batteries I can't see the point in a hybrid system. Lithium should be able to supply the same as lead and more.
This not holding lithium at 100% is another oddity. As I use solar charging, ultimately they will sit at 100% unless the solar can't keep up with the demand.
Murky will soon be going Lithium without heating and the batteries will be mounted outside. Let's see what happens.
 
SquirrellCook said:
Unless you have good lead acid batteries I can't see the point in a hybrid system. Lithium should be able to supply the same as lead and more.
This not holding lithium at 100% is another oddity. As I use solar charging, ultimately they will sit at 100% unless the solar can't keep up with the demand.
Murky will soon be going Lithium without heating and the batteries will be mounted outside. Let's see what happens.
Click to expand...
I doubt very much any full timers are stopping charge input at 80%, mine sit at 100% most sunny days at some point for 7(?) sunny U.K. months. Of course a lot of the time I do have load on the hab bank as the fridge is usually only off when I defrosts/clean it.
I ‘think’ it is just so manufacturers can quote longer life cycles but I am naturally cynical of anything to do with battery’s.

My lithium is inboard and I do monitor temperature. Solar input not been a problem at low temps so far as not enough power in the sun when battery’s have dipped under 5C and they have never hit 0C yet. I would probably isolate battery’s if leaving van stored in winter.

In winter and poor weather I do aim to maintain my hab bank between 20% and 80% SoC but that’s is more to reduce genny run time if not moving than anything else. If I wasn’t using the van all the time I could switch the battery isolator and pull solar fuses easy enough though if worried.

Personally speaking because I managed to kill 3 Bosch PowerFrame battery’s in 12 months I am already around my break even point.
 
SquirrellCook said:
Unless you have good lead acid batteries I can't see the point in a hybrid system. Lithium should be able to supply the same as lead and more.
This not holding lithium at 100% is another oddity. As I use solar charging, ultimately they will sit at 100% unless the solar can't keep up with the demand.
Murky will soon be going Lithium without heating and the batteries will be mounted outside. Let's see what happens.
Click to expand...
One point ... COST.
A 100Ah Lithium Battery delivering 90% of its capacity is around 3 times the price of a Lead Acid Battery delivering 80% of its Capacity.
The retail cost of one of my 100Ah Lead Carbon batteries was £150. The retail cost of one of my Lithium Batteries was £600. (I quoted 3 times the cost not 4 as I have batteries with heaters and bluetooth. You can get cheaper batteries without those features)

Another point ... COST.
If you are creating a Hybrid System in an older vehicle, you don't need to update the chargers to be Lithium Compatible.
So if you have a more basic system without the latest chargers and pretty generic Lead Acid batteries, it is a possible way to add in the benefits of Lithium as well as increasing capacity in a cost-effective way.

About a week ago I was down to just over 50% SOC of my 500Ah Battery Bank. To have taken that much out if I had all Lithium, I would have needed 3 of the Lithiums and I would have had just 50Ah left (and if going down to 90% DOD, would be just 20Ah left)
With the Hybrid Bank of 200Ah Lithium + 300Ah Lead, I used up all the Lithiums (well, down to 90% DOD), but my Leads were still sitting above 75% - so 200AH of capacity and 160Ah still very usable, so the equivalent of another 1.5 worth of Lithiums.
So not only have I saved money by having a Hybrid Bank, I have way more available capacity.
With All Lithium and 50AH (preferably 20Ah) remaining I would be hunting for more charge or trying to save power. With Hybrid and 200AH capacity and easily 160Ah available, I don't need to worry.
And on the recharge, the Lithiums take the current first so you still get all the faster charging benefits of Lithium even with the Lithium/Lead mix.

Going for a big Lithium Bank is great, but it costs. If you have a Morelo Gin Palace, then that would be the way to go. If you have a 15 year old Autotrail, you likely cut your cloth in a different way :)
 
nabsim said:
Have a look here, it won’t float, it will only take a charge if set right. Doesn’t matter what is says (bulk, absorption,float).

Click to expand...
He makes some very interesting videos with well articulated points.
The concept of setting the max charge voltage, (boost bulk absorption or whatever they like to call it) which he discuses in another video, simply affecting the overall charge time, is relevant to my setup, I simply don’t like the Renogy Rover seemingly shoving 14.4v into the battery all day by remaining permanently in boost mode! And never exiting that irrespective of whatever time it supposedly set too!

So I am going to experiment with some lower voltages.
 
i intended to go with a single 100A lithium to replace my 2 x 100A lead acid but then i was told the lithiums BCM would just shut down if you asked too much of it for my requirements i would have needed a second & possibly third lithium my 160A lead carbon cost £180 from alpha with discounts and if the theory is correct because of the hybrid the lead carbon will never discharge so should have an indefinite life span ?
 
Must admit I get a bit confused with Hybrid battery banks. I can’t see how you can fast charge them without damage. The original problem with agm battery’s was chargers putting too much charge too quickly wasnt it? Gels although more tolerant need long time to top up. Neither gel or agm will reach 100% SoC without a long charge will they?

I know Del couldn’t get enough power at Vanlife Festival, one day he said was a gas day as battery’s weren’t charged enough from solar. I know Del uses a lot of appliances but if he could quick charge his lead carbon the way I can my Lifepo4 (taking whatever solar it can get until full) surely he wouldn’t need gas days unless it was very poor solar? I know the day in question my battery’s were full just after lunch.

Cost is an obvious advantage of hybrid but weight is a big downer for some. End of the day not everyone needs lots of power and some can sit without solar just using a few leds or a solar power bank so it is horses for courses. Whatever setup allows you to get out in the van is right. Questions posed as I can’t get my head round the fast charge bit on hybrid
 
i am poor on knowledge it’s all electrickery to me but as i understand it the lithium charges fast and is used in the first instance but also constantly trickle charges the lead element , i’m not a big power user very rarely turn on tv but run my fridge freezer for several hours a day off inverter, lpg wise i probably use less than a ltr a day in the summer and double that in the winter
 
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