Electric Van

One of the major downsides with cross country EV use is the very high cost of public but specifically rapid charging the profiteering going on is considerable, most are charging between 2-3 times the current capped domestic rate, one has recently put their rate up to 98p kw which is the highest I have seen to date.

There’s no fuel duty (yet) on electricity used for vehicle charging so it’s all pure profit after the initial install overhead.
One day we might see an EV public charging price cap but I doubt it, so right now it’s the wild west out there and they charge whatever they can get away with.

I always do the mental maths in my head to convert the electricity cost to diesel mpg
My car does around between 3.9 miles per KW in winter and up to 5 miles per kw in summer.
Let’s assume for this exercise the average is 4, domestic cap is 34p kw
Let’s also ignore the lower night rates or daytime charging via solar for this exercise as it’s too big a variable
Diesel around here is currently around £1.50 a litre or £6.83 per gallon

£6.83 divided by 34p rounded down = buys 20 kw of electricity
20 x 4 miles per kw = 80 so currently my EV car does the equivalent of 80 mpg when charging at home at the capped rate.

We regularly go for day trips in North Wales, Bodnant is one of our regulars and my cars 100 mile typical range just about gets us there and back from home but let’s assume we’ve been a lot further and are doing multiple stops to charge mid journey etc. and I have arrived at the multiple Instavolt rapids in Corwen current price there is 75p kw

For my equivalent £6.83 gallon of diesel that only buys me 9kw
That equates to an appalling 36 mpg way below what I get from my BMW F11.

Now do the same above for your typical leased showoff less efficient Chelsea Tractor, or Audi Etron style EV that only averages 3kw per mile
You get the equivalent of 60 mpg charging from home which is still reasonable but a mere 27mpg using the rapid.

EV vans especially when loaded worse case could easily be down to 2 miles kw.
So 40 mpg or 18 mpg respectively.

The considerable price overhead of buying EVs can make them very expensive to run if primarily using public charging extensively but they remain relatively economical when charging from home. Very few vans would ever be charging from home other than the initial first leg of any journey so is an 18 mpg equivalent viable?

I have just bought another EV with far longer range, that still will average around 4miles kw to allow me to do much longer day trips when not out in our van without (other than a few exceptions) having to use public charging. I did contemplate a phev such as the excellent Ford Kuga but the extra complexity and more expensive servicing overheads doesn’t work for me.

It’s worth mentioning there are still a few exceptions the 7kw pod points at most Tescos are currently cheaper than the domestic capped rate (last time I used one it was 28p kw) and there are still a few free charge points around the country e.g. at some National Trust sites

But these are all the slower so called fast chargers, and not the much higher capacity rapids.
 
My next door neighbour had an Audi eTron for a few months (the car they wanted was damaged when being delivered) and it did nothing like 3miles/KWh. They were lucky to get 2. They hated that car: too expensive to run, too big to drive far too big to park.
 
EVs were doomed from day one really for anything more than commuting, who wants to keep breaking their journey, transport with EV doesn't work except locally. I think I read that even Amazon who were early adopters have sent all their EV vans back

there is nothing wrong with the internal combustion engine, it's had massive development, only what we fuel it with, it is now being recognised as still the best way to go but the Hydrogen infrastructure is still in its infancy as was EV to begin with, but the investment and government incentives are missing for it to get going as fast as we need it too. AFAIC EV stole the limelight undeservedly, all they did was move the pollution to the power stations.
 
I don’t have an issue with our EV usage, I always pay cash for our vehicles never lease or worse HP.
I also always buy second hand now.

My first ev was an ex demonstrator 1600 miles on the clock and we paid 50% of the then retail price, depreciation has been extremely low, running costs stupidly low it’s only been let down compared to todays cars, by a limited range and it uses Chademo rapid charging which is being phased out.

I have only sold it now because it’s ow seven years old and the battery is out of warranty’s and I also wanted something with 2-3 times the range.
I am getting a surprisingly good px price for it and the replacement car is costing me another £16,000 which isn’t a lot for another 5-7 years of pleasant motoring.

There’s nothing quite like driving an EV even traffic jams are far less stressful!
 
My next door neighbour had an Audi eTron for a few months (the car they wanted was damaged when being delivered) and it did nothing like 3miles/KWh. They were lucky to get 2. They hated that car: too expensive to run, too big to drive far too big to park.
I was being generous yes some of the unnecessarily powerful heavy EVs can really burn through the electricity.
Sensible cars like my Kia and most of the models in the the MG range are probably the most efficient out there.
 
I did try one and I agree very pleasant, but the tech isn't nor how they get the battery materials using basically slave labour, and it's not exactly a healthy job either, so we decided we'll stick with the devil we know based on it being more environmental than building a new vehicle and digging stuff out of the ground that has a shorter life span than the vehicle it's powering, and of course, it is still by far the most convenient & effective means of personal transport on the roads today.
 
I own a BMW 225XE and my energy supplier is Octopus and we have what they term as their Octopus GO contract which supplies us the daily kwh charge at a slightly higher 32.79p KWH and a heavilly discounted rate between 00.30 hrs and 04.30 of just 7.14p KWH and it is during this period we run all our laundry equipment, cooker timers and most importantly of all the car charging.

My car normall charges in 3 hours or just 21.42p and this normally gives me a range of between 15 and 18 miles.

The 3 cylinder turbocharged (Cooper S) engine combined with the electric power combined with my carefull manual selection of driving modes, i.e. I only ever use the BMW fully automated EcoPro mode in slow 30/40 restricted areas before switching to ICE power when on derestricted roads. Driving in this way on our shorter journeys in the surrounding approx. 30 radius from home we average approx 74 mpg, whereas on longer journeys of approx. 100 miles or more, this petrol comsumption rate drops to approx. 56 mpg.
I drive in this way because I have found that the rate the battery recharges is very significantly faster than when driving in the supposed EcoPro mode.

All of the above, well I understand what I have written and I am very well pleased with this amazing car!
 
One thing I didn’t mention or calculate in my running cost example above is the 230v AC obc (on board charger) efficiency this probably does vary to a degree between manglefacturers but it is information they don’t provide and I think may intentionally hide.

I am also very aware of the head in the sand typical owner that simply can’t comprehend the fact that it almost certainly costs them a lot more money to charge their ev to X via their 2.5kw granny charger compared to a wall mounted 7.2kw charger

This is a hidden nasty surprise hence the head in the sand response I regularly see especilly from the type of people that believe everything they read on Facebook and are too lazy to verify it!

For my car Kia quote OBC efficiency in the official service manual at 7.2 kw (230v AC 32A) input of 90% that equates to the OBC and related vehicle electronics using 3.2A

End result for every 10kw drawn from the mains only 9kw goes into the HV battery, that’s off their figures in reality mines nearer 85% not 90%

But and this is the potential really expensive bit
That obc overhead does not decrease significantly at lower charging current.
On the 10A granny charger my own cars obc is then only 67% and on a 16A charger it’s around 75%.

I typically use a 3.6kw (16A) charger at home to maximise solar harvesting and reduce pulling too much from the grid
That 25% overhead effectively reduces my current examples mpg equivalent from 80mpg to 60mpg if I was paying for everything I used.

A lot of people, especially as I mentioned those to lazy to do their homework have a problem with believing that. It not something you ever see covered off in the endless gushing reviews in magazine and especially on YouTube.

A lot of people use solar optimised chargers such as Zappis which reduce the charge rate to match available solar but once you get down to charging at <2kw it starts to become very inefficient and I would rather use the surplus for something else, the Washing machine tumble drier portable indoor AC etc.

When Rapid charging some of the excessive cost is to cover of the efficiency loses in their externally rapid charger doing the rectification of AC to DC because then the cars internal obc rectifier is out of the loop so you only pay for the kw delivered to the battery but at a much elevated price

So there’s some more food for thought
 
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@Millie Master i specifically didn’t include examples of off peak tariff because their is such a huge variation out there but yes when those tariffs are being used the disparity between cost of home charging versus public is even bigger.
 
So from the two illustrations I have produced above, and in relation to the thread being about EV vans what have I just convinced myself of?

Basically the cost of charging an EV van to use as a Motor Caravan when using public charging to me makes buying one totally impractical.

For anything other than last mile deliveries which is really what they are best/only suitable for, they effectively become more expensive to fuel per mile than a petrol or diesel equivalent and hence I find it really strange that there is only one PHEV alternative the small Transit available to date afaik

Isn’t that rather odd!
 
Hybrids should have been the way to go initially which is what Toyota rightly did, unfortunately, Tesla went full bore into EV thinking that was the future and it may have been so a good bet and he's made a bob or two out of it, but should EV fall off the throne, he's scuppered and has nowhere to go, and even then would have to put his hand in his pocket to fund it.

EVs for now seems to be it for most folk, I'll consider a hybrid next perhaps but never a EV.
 
By far and away the biggest NO NO about any pure electric vehile is their astronomic weight as Lord Bamford of JCB has so clearly pointed out many times over when discussing site excavators etc.

I very much doubt I will be alive anywhere near long enough to see EV's kicked fairly and squarely into touch (as they should be) and replaced by a far more practical fuelled type of vehicle, because one thing is for absolute certain and that is some form of private mechanised transport will always exist!
 
Horses are still around just in case.
 
One thing I didn’t mention or calculate in my running cost example above is the 230v AC obc (on board charger) efficiency this probably does vary to a degree between manglefacturers but it is information they don’t provide and I think may intentionally hide.

I am also very aware of the head in the sand typical owner that simply can’t comprehend the fact that it almost certainly costs them a lot more money to charge their ev to X via their 2.5kw granny charger compared to a wall mounted 7.2kw charger

This is a hidden nasty surprise hence the head in the sand response I regularly see especilly from the type of people that believe everything they read on Facebook and are too lazy to verify it!

For my car Kia quote OBC efficiency in the official service manual at 7.2 kw (230v AC 32A) input of 90% that equates to the OBC and related vehicle electronics using 3.2A

End result for every 10kw drawn from the mains only 9kw goes into the HV battery, that’s off their figures in reality mines nearer 85% not 90%

But and this is the potential really expensive bit
That obc overhead does not decrease significantly at lower charging current.
On the 10A granny charger my own cars obc is then only 67% and on a 16A charger it’s around 75%.

I typically use a 3.6kw (16A) charger at home to maximise solar harvesting and reduce pulling too much from the grid
That 25% overhead effectively reduces my current examples mpg equivalent from 80mpg to 60mpg if I was paying for everything I used.

A lot of people, especially as I mentioned those to lazy to do their homework have a problem with believing that. It not something you ever see covered off in the endless gushing reviews in magazine and especially on YouTube.

A lot of people use solar optimised chargers such as Zappis which reduce the charge rate to match available solar but once you get down to charging at <2kw it starts to become very inefficient and I would rather use the surplus for something else, the Washing machine tumble drier portable indoor AC etc.

When Rapid charging some of the excessive cost is to cover of the efficiency loses in their externally rapid charger doing the rectification of AC to DC because then the cars internal obc rectifier is out of the loop so you only pay for the kw delivered to the battery but at a much elevated price

So there’s some more food for thought
There's also.the power used to heat batteries before charging in winter. Quite significant.

Of course, fast charging might be more efficient, but it shortens the battery lifespan. I don't know what the replacement cost per charge cycle is, but I suspect it may be nearer the cost of the electricity that it is near negligible
 
Hybrids should have been the way to go initially which is what Toyota rightly did, unfortunately, Tesla went full bore into EV thinking that was the future and it may have been so a good bet and he's made a bob or two out of it, but should EV fall off the throne, he's scuppered and has nowhere to go, and even then would have to put his hand in his pocket to fund it.

EVs for now seems to be it for most folk, I'll consider a hybrid next perhaps but never a EV.
Hybrids are more to go wrong.

I think the future of the private car is obsolescence. Well, I hope so. Vans and trucks and buses? Hydrogen.
 
Hybrids like anything else can go wrong, but at least you have an alternative power source to get you into a safer place to await recovery unless it's the EV side in which case not really a problem until you get back home.

As for obsolescence when will you be giving up your car? never going to happen, they may get smaller and slower, but they will always be there even if they are pulled by a horse.
 
As for obsolescence when will you be giving up your car? never going to happen, they may get smaller and slower, but they will always be there even if they are pulled by a horse.
If there was a good, integrated and reliable public transport system, I'd not need a car.
The planet needs us to give up our cars - and our aircraft.
There is no green car.
 
Hybrids like anything else can go wrong, but at least you have an alternative power source to get you into a safer place to await recovery unless it's the EV side in which case not really a problem until you get back home.
Doesn't work like that. I know people who have had hybrids. One bit fails, the car doesn't work. You can't drive on the engine if the battery/motor system is down. You can only go a short distance on battery if the engine is down.
 
If there was a good, integrated and reliable public transport system, I'd not need a car.
The planet needs us to give up our cars - and our aircraft.
There is no green car.
Jus sayin like

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Doesn't work like that. I know people who have had hybrids. One bit fails, the car doesn't work. You can't drive on the engine if the battery/motor system is down. You can only go a short distance on battery if the engine is down.
Not so, I looked into this a while ago, and some are co-dependent, but some will run more or less the same if the motor/battery fail, they will not perform quite the same but they will run.
 

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