Passport application nightmare

[Pudsey Bear]

I am in the unusual position of not knowing anyone on the list of referee types.

HM Passport Office - Chat TranscriptKev (You): On the list of referees I don't know anyone applicable, I know a recently made redundant mortgage advisor but no one else.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:52:11
Stephen (Agent): Hello, try and find someone who comes as close as possible to the requirements.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:53:13
Kev Behr(You): I have been trying but the above-mentioned person is the nearest I can find but she is worried that she may be accused of lying as she now runs her own business that is not in the financial sector.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:55:24
Stephen (Agent): You can try them.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:56:17
Stephen (Agent): If they don't meet the criteria, you will be asked to try someone else.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:56:40
Kev (You): That isn't very helpful is it, I do not know anyone else, and I do not want to waste more time with my application.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:57:59Stephen (Agent): Anything else we can help with?Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:58:32
Kev (You): yes, there must be a way to help me and others who fall through the cracks just because they don't know anyone on a list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:59:43
Stephen (Agent): Yes there is, you try someone who isn't on the list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:00:23
Stephen (Agent): That's just a preferred list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:00:38
Kev (You): OH okay, so a person of trust will do then?Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:07Stephen (Agent): That's it.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:18
Kev (You): Okay thank you.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:30Stephen (Agent): Thank you, goodbye.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:43Date of Download: 23/10/2023

Referee: recognised professions​

• accountant
• airline pilot
• articled clerk of a limited company
• assurance agent of a recognised company
• bank or building society official
• barrister
• chairman or director of a limited company
• chiropodist
• commissioner of oaths
• councillor (for example a local or county councillor)
• civil servant
• dentist
• director, manager or personnel officer of a vat registered company
• doctor
• driving instructor (must be listed on the register of Approved Driving Instructors)
• engineer (with professional qualifications)
• fire service official
• funeral director
• financial services intermediary
• insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
• journalist
• justice of the peace
• legal secretary (fellow or associate members of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
• licensee of a public house
• local government officer
• manager or personnel officer of a limited company
• minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
• MP’s
• nurse, registered mental health nurse (RMN) or registered general nurse (RGN)
• officers of the armed forces
• optician
• paralegal (certified paralegals, qualified paralegal and associate members of the institute of paralegals)
• person with honours (for example, an OBE or MBE)
• photographer (professional)
• police officer
• post office official
• president or secretary of a recognised organisation
• Salvation Army officer
• social worker
• solicitor
• surveyor
• teacher or lecturer
• trade union official
• travel agent (must hold a professional travel agent qualification)
• valuers and auctioneers (fellow and associate members of the incorporated society)

 

[mark61]

Oh come on, who do you think you are kidding.

There's zero chance you don't know a registered mental health care nurse.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I know two actually, one is yours and the other is Trevs.

Seriously though, I just don't know anyone, I've been retired since 2009 and I'l have had no problem back then but the criteria has got really difficult.


I was married to a Sister, I had three fireman mates, and others on the list, now none, and you have to have their email address too.

 

[maingate]

My local Vicar refused to sign my application because he said he did not know me and I did not attend his Church on Sunday mornings. I pointed out that I had been working overseas and 6,000 miles was a bit too far to attend his Church every Sunday.

This Vicar walked past my house every Sunday afternoon just to annoy my only neighbour on our private road. The following Sunday I made sure my rescue mongrel with a loud bark and a dislike for strangers was outside and my 2 Goats were on long tethers next to the road. His 3 kids and his Wife were too scared to pass, so they all eventually turned back. I made a point of wishing the family a pleasant day. My neighbour was peeking through his curtains and almost pissed himself laughing at the Vicar.

I got someone else to sign the form.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I'm really not sure what I can do about it either.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

My local Vicar refused to sign my application because he said he did not know me and I did not attend his Church on Sunday mornings. I pointed out that I had been working overseas and 6,000 miles was a bit too far to attend his Church every Sunday.

This Vicar walked past my house every Sunday afternoon just to annoy my only neighbour on our private road. The following Sunday I made sure my rescue mongrel with a loud bark and a dislike for strangers was outside and my 2 Goats were on long tethers next to the road. His 3 kids and his Wife were too scared to pass, so they all eventually turned back. I made a point of wishing the family a pleasant day. My neighbour was peeking through his curtains and almost pissed himself laughing at the Vicar.

I got someone else to sign the form.

I'm doing it online, but I might just get a form from the post office if it's easier although I have already paid the fee.

 

[marchie]

I am in the unusual position of not knowing anyone on the list of referee types.

HM Passport Office - Chat TranscriptKev (You): On the list of referees I don't know anyone applicable, I know a recently made redundant mortgage advisor but no one else.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:52:11
Stephen (Agent): Hello, try and find someone who comes as close as possible to the requirements.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:53:13
Kev Behr(You): I have been trying but the above-mentioned person is the nearest I can find but she is worried that she may be accused of lying as she now runs her own business that is not in the financial sector.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:55:24
Stephen (Agent): You can try them.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:56:17
Stephen (Agent): If they don't meet the criteria, you will be asked to try someone else.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:56:40
Kev (You): That isn't very helpful is it, I do not know anyone else, and I do not want to waste more time with my application.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:57:59Stephen (Agent): Anything else we can help with?Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:58:32
Kev (You): yes, there must be a way to help me and others who fall through the cracks just because they don't know anyone on a list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:59:43
Stephen (Agent): Yes there is, you try someone who isn't on the list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:00:23
Stephen (Agent): That's just a preferred list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:00:38
Kev (You): OH okay, so a person of trust will do then?Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:07Stephen (Agent): That's it.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:18
Kev (You): Okay thank you.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:30Stephen (Agent): Thank you, goodbye.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:43Date of Download: 23/10/2023

Referee: recognised professions​

• accountant
• airline pilot
• articled clerk of a limited company
• assurance agent of a recognised company
• bank or building society official
• barrister
• chairman or director of a limited company
• chiropodist
• commissioner of oaths
• councillor (for example a local or county councillor)
• civil servant
• dentist
• director, manager or personnel officer of a vat registered company
• doctor
• driving instructor (must be listed on the register of Approved Driving Instructors)
• engineer (with professional qualifications)
• fire service official
• funeral director
• financial services intermediary
• insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
• journalist
• justice of the peace
• legal secretary (fellow or associate members of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
• licensee of a public house
• local government officer
• manager or personnel officer of a limited company
• minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
• MP’s
• nurse, registered mental health nurse (RMN) or registered general nurse (RGN)
• officers of the armed forces
• optician
• paralegal (certified paralegals, qualified paralegal and associate members of the institute of paralegals)
• person with honours (for example, an OBE or MBE)
• photographer (professional)
• police officer
• post office official
• president or secretary of a recognised organisation
• Salvation Army officer
• social worker
• solicitor
• surveyor
• teacher or lecturer
• trade union official
• travel agent (must hold a professional travel agent qualification)
• valuers and auctioneers (fellow and associate members of the incorporated society)

1. Your friendly local councillor
2. Your optician
3. If your local Post Office is still in business, ask them if they can certify it's you in the photo, if you visit the Post Office with your Driving Licence photo card and a Bank Debit/Credit Card and/or a Utility Bill in your name [but usually has to be less than 3 months old], or your Council Tax Bill
4. If Liz is a seasoned user of cruises, her Travel Agent, if Liz vouches for you?

Just needs a bit of head scratching and a couple of phone calls to explain your problem, and reminding the Councillor of your vote, and the others of your business connection. A wee bit of smarm and crawling works wonders!

Steve

 

[oppy]

I'll sign it for you !!, it'll cost you bottle of red though

 

[trevskoda]

I'll sign it for you !!, it'll cost you bottle of red though
View attachment 70122

Only catholic priests are allowed to drink, ministers only get cheery at xmas in folks houses, problem is they vis about 15 a day hic.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

So I decided to get the paper form to apply, but I already paid online so I just went back online to get a refund.

Danielle (Agent): If you wish to cancel the application, this can only be done in writing by sending a signed and dated letter to the office processing the application. If you choose to withdraw your current application the fee will not be refunded. His Majesty's Passport Office have a no refund policy so the fees would be retained.


So basically unless I want to throw away £82.50 I have to continue with the online application, but the parameters are quite different for qualifying on the paper form.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

So I decided to get the paper form to apply, but I already paid online so I just went back online to get a refund.

Danielle (Agent): If you wish to cancel the application, this can only be done in writing by sending a signed and dated letter to the office processing the application. If you choose to withdraw your current application the fee will not be refunded. His Majesty's Passport Office have a no refund policy so the fees would be retained.


So basically unless I want to throw away £82.50 I have to continue with the online application, but the parameters are quite different for qualifying on the paper form.

Welcome to the insanity of the UK in 2023, Kev

Actually, although it is totally laughable, things like this are a long way from "amusing".

We went through the online passport application stuff last year and hit a couple of anomalies, one of which was a referee being accepted for one of us (me) but (the same referee!) not by Neil's application. No logical reason for the anomaly. The other anomaly, which should have been circumventable/easily corrected, ended up costing Neil more money than necessary.

I could have a good old explanatory rant about the why's and wherefores of all this inefficient online sh1te, but it would change nothing and just depress me ...

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I was just astounded by the person responding's attitude, no Effs were given.

 

[marchie]

Welcome to the insanity of the UK in 2023, Kev

Actually, although it is totally laughable, things like this are a long way from "amusing".

We went through the online passport application stuff last year and hit a couple of anomalies, one of which was a referee being accepted for one of us (me) but (the same referee!) not by Neil's application. No logical reason for the anomaly. The other anomaly, which should have been circumventable/easily corrected, ended up costing Neil more money than necessary.

I could have a good old explanatory rant about the why's and wherefores of all this inefficient online sh1te, but it would change nothing and just depress me ...

'It'za system innit, Missus, though? Nuffink I can do about it ...'

I've just finished another 25 mins call [+ 7 mins in the queue which promises my call will be answered within 1 minute], trying for the 4th time to get a paper from Admiral that confirms that the vaunted Platinum Household Insurance Policy will give 120 Days Unoccupancy Cover, instead of the 60 days bog standard sheet of policy conditions that apply to lower grade policies. Tbf, this is the 4th time I have spoken to Admiral, and on each occasion, the Agent has had to put me on hold whilst he obtained clarification from his Manager [apparently Admiral sell very few 120 Days Unoccupancy Policies, but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of Admiral to produce a 'Platinum Policy Cover Terms' Sheet specific to the promised Cover ... Oh, wait a minute, yes it is ...

All of which confirms my cynical belief that has not been disproved in 70 years: 'Getting customer service right is the 2nd easiest thing in the world. Unfortunately, getting customer service really badly wrong consistently is even easier ...' .Every 1/2 wit CEO of a UK Company should be made to undertake an independently verified test of phoning their Customer Service Centre for a customer query, to experience the absolutely god-awful systems/processes that generate his/her excessive base pay and bonuses/share options etc, instead of providing systems and products that actually work

You don't have to be a complete onanist to be a UK CEO, but it is a huge advantage to one's Job Application ...

Steve

 

[mariesnowgoose]

I was just astounded by the person responding's attitude, no Effs were given.

So I decided to get the paper form to apply, but I already paid online so I just went back online to get a refund.

Danielle (Agent): If you wish to cancel the application, this can only be done in writing by sending a signed and dated letter to the office processing the application. If you choose to withdraw your current application the fee will not be refunded. His Majesty's Passport Office have a no refund policy so the fees would be retained.


So basically unless I want to throw away £82.50 I have to continue with the online application, but the parameters are quite different for qualifying on the paper form.

That's basically obtaining money by deception.

However, as it is a "government department" I doubt whether you'd have much success (in the current climate at any rate) of accusing them of fraud and holding them to account for this kind of outrageous nonsense.

Interesting situation though (albeit very depressing). I wonder - could you report them to Trading Standards?!

If not, you blinkin' well should be able to! Thieving scum

 

[Pudsey Bear]

'It'za system innit, Missus, though? Nuffink I can do about it ...'

I've just finished another 25 mins call [+ 7 mins in the queue which promises my call will be answered within 1 minute], trying for the 4th time to get a paper from Admiral that confirms that the vaunted Platinum Household Insurance Policy will give 120 Days Unoccupancy Cover, instead of the 60 days bog standard sheet of policy conditions that apply to lower grade policies. Tbf, this is the 4th time I have spoken to Admiral, and on each occasion, the Agent has had to put me on hold whilst he obtained clarification from his Manager [apparently Admiral sell very few 120 Days Unoccupancy Policies, but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of Admiral to produce a 'Platinum Policy Cover Terms' Sheet specific to the promised Cover ... Oh, wait a minute, yes it is ...

All of which confirms my cynical belief that has not been disproved in 70 years: 'Getting customer service right is the 2nd easiest thing in the world. Unfortunately, getting customer service really badly wrong consistently is even easier ...' .Every 1/2 wit CEO of a UK Company should be made to undertake an independently verified test of phoning their Customer Service Centre for a customer query, to experience the absolutely god-awful systems/processes that generate his/her excessive base pay and bonuses/share options etc, instead of providing systems and products that actually work

You don't have to be a complete onanist to be a UK CEO, but it is a huge advantage to one's Job Application ...

Steve

What happened about your flooded home Steve?

 

[marchie]

Welcome to the insanity of the UK in 2023, Kev

Actually, although it is totally laughable, things like this are a long way from "amusing".

We went through the online passport application stuff last year and hit a couple of anomalies, one of which was a referee being accepted for one of us (me) but (the same referee!) not by Neil's application. No logical reason for the anomaly. The other anomaly, which should have been circumventable/easily corrected, ended up costing Neil more money than necessary.

I could have a good old explanatory rant about the why's and wherefores of all this inefficient online sh1te, but it would change nothing and just depress me ...

'It'za system innit, Missus, though? Nuffink I can do about it ...'

I've just finished another 25 mins call [+ 7 mins in the queue which promises my call will be answered within 1 minute], trying for the 4th time to get a paper from Admiral that confirms that the vaunted Platinum Household Insurance Policy will give 120 Days Unoccupancy Cover, instead of the 60 days bog standard sheet of policy conditions that apply to lower grade policies. Tbf, this is the 4th time I have spoken to Admiral, and on each occasion, the Agent has had to put me on hold whilst he obtained clarification from his Manager [apparently Admiral sell very few 120 Days Unoccupancy Policies, but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of Admiral to produce a 'Platinum Policy Cover Terms' Sheet specific to the promised Cover ... Oh, wait a minute, yes it is ...

All of which confirms my cynical belief that has not been disproved in 70 years: 'Getting customer service right is the 2nd easiest thing in the world. Unfortunately, getting customer service really badly wrong consistently is even easier ...' .Every 1/2 wit CEO of a UK Company should be made to undertake an independently verified test of phoning their Customer Service Centre for a customer query, to experience the absolutely god-awful systems/processes that generate his/her excessive base pay and bonuses/share options etc, instead of providing systems and products that actually work

You don't have to be a complete onanist to be a UK CEO, but it is a huge advantage to one's Job Application ...

Steve

What happened about your flooded home Steve?

All repaired, thanks, Kev, and the Financial Services Ombudsman found against Aviva plus 8 statutory interest

Steve

 

[Carrerasax]

I am in the unusual position of not knowing anyone on the list of referee types.

HM Passport Office - Chat TranscriptKev (You): On the list of referees I don't know anyone applicable, I know a recently made redundant mortgage advisor but no one else.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:52:11
Stephen (Agent): Hello, try and find someone who comes as close as possible to the requirements.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:53:13
Kev Behr(You): I have been trying but the above-mentioned person is the nearest I can find but she is worried that she may be accused of lying as she now runs her own business that is not in the financial sector.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:55:24
Stephen (Agent): You can try them.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:56:17
Stephen (Agent): If they don't meet the criteria, you will be asked to try someone else.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:56:40
Kev (You): That isn't very helpful is it, I do not know anyone else, and I do not want to waste more time with my application.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:57:59Stephen (Agent): Anything else we can help with?Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:58:32
Kev (You): yes, there must be a way to help me and others who fall through the cracks just because they don't know anyone on a list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 13:59:43
Stephen (Agent): Yes there is, you try someone who isn't on the list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:00:23
Stephen (Agent): That's just a preferred list.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:00:38
Kev (You): OH okay, so a person of trust will do then?Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:07Stephen (Agent): That's it.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:18
Kev (You): Okay thank you.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:30Stephen (Agent): Thank you, goodbye.Sent at: 23/10/2023, 14:01:43Date of Download: 23/10/2023

Referee: recognised professions​

• accountant
• airline pilot
• articled clerk of a limited company
• assurance agent of a recognised company
• bank or building society official
• barrister
• chairman or director of a limited company
• chiropodist
• commissioner of oaths
• councillor (for example a local or county councillor)
• civil servant
• dentist
• director, manager or personnel officer of a vat registered company
• doctor
• driving instructor (must be listed on the register of Approved Driving Instructors)
• engineer (with professional qualifications)
• fire service official
• funeral director
• financial services intermediary
• insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
• journalist
• justice of the peace
• legal secretary (fellow or associate members of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
• licensee of a public house
• local government officer
• manager or personnel officer of a limited company
• minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
• MP’s
• nurse, registered mental health nurse (RMN) or registered general nurse (RGN)
• officers of the armed forces
• optician
• paralegal (certified paralegals, qualified paralegal and associate members of the institute of paralegals)
• person with honours (for example, an OBE or MBE)
• photographer (professional)
• police officer
• post office official
• president or secretary of a recognised organisation
• Salvation Army officer
• social worker
• solicitor
• surveyor
• teacher or lecturer
• trade union official
• travel agent (must hold a professional travel agent qualification)
• valuers and auctioneers (fellow and associate members of the incorporated society)

Do you really not know a Salvation Army officer, a once girlfriend of mine was one!!!

 

[wildebus]

Is all this referee stuff needed for just a passport for someone who has not had one before? or any renewal?

 

[wildebus]

also ... that is a weird set of professions. There are quite a few there which are hardly the most salubrious of occupations to say the least.

For a start, know ANYONE who has published a video on Youtube? they are a Jorno (there are only a few occupations that state the person must be in a specified trade body, and Journalist is not one of them).

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Is all this referee stuff needed for just a passport for someone who has not had on before? or any renewal?

also ... that is a weird set of professions. There are quite a few there which are hardly the most salubrious of occupations to say the least.

For a start, know ANYONE who has published a video on Youtube? they are a Jorno (there are only a few occupations that state the person must be in a specified trade body, and Journalist is not one of them).

Exactly!

Outdated load of nonsense which seems to have been left over from another era, imo. It’s a very precarious way of establishing whether someone is a “suitable enough” person to be allowed a UK passport. Especially when many of the professions on the list aren’t exactly honest, law-abiding saints themselves.

I mean to say - MPs?! Really? Pull the other one!

And I’ve always wondered if any of the people on the “suitable professions” list would actually be held accountable for vouchsafing someone who later turned out to be a murderer, smuggler, international terrorist, etc etc. ?