On overnight stop on the moors with no starting in the morning

Sonar

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790
An overnight stop

So we stopped overnight on the moors safely in a very quite lay-by.
Up in the morning. Go to start the van . Nothing

Just continues to make a clicking sound .

Did the same noise every time we tried to start.

So three things came to mind

Seized starter motor

Knackered solenoid

Bad earth.



Rocking and then into gear moved the starter still nothing
Tested all the lights horn and everything in the cab . brake lights dash lights indicators
Everything working .

So from the battery a click check with a bit of thick wire battery to engine

Still nothing



The battery showed a full charge.
So now had to call the rescues service we have .

They said it’s the battery. Tested the battery 13.1 volts showing fully charged. Then decided it could be a electrical problem..

Anyway he started the van with a booster pack said run the engine for a good charge.



Anyway within 60 miles on route to our destination we contacted a garage explained everything to them they said it was the battery.
We made our way to the garage .

They removed the cab battery and it was still 13.1 volts.

They said the battery condition window this was sticking about 15 mm above the battery so then tested the battery again 13.1 volts 24 amps.

For a 110 amp battery 3. Years old I would have thought the battery was the last problem

New battery now so Sorted now

But I never ever thought a battery could have a full charge with next to no amps..


But now I do ….
 
Last edited:
Sonar said:
An overnight stop

So we stopped overnight on the moors safely in a very quite lay-by.
Up in the morning. Go to start the van . Nothing

Just continues to make a clicking sound .

Did the same noise every time we tried to start.

So three things came to mind

Seized starter motor

Knackered solenoid

Bad earth.



Rocking and then into gear moved the starter still nothing
Tested all the lights horn and everything in the cab . brake lights dash lights indicators
Everything working .

So from the battery a click check with a bit of thick wire battery to engine

Still nothing



The battery showed a full charge.
So now had to call the rescues service we have .

They said it’s the battery. Tested the battery 13.1 volts showing fully charged. Then decided it could be a electrical problem..

Anyway he started the van with a booster pack said run the engine for a good charge.



Anyway within 60 miles on route to our destination we contacted a garage explained everything to them they said it was the battery.
We made our way to the garage .

They removed the cab battery and it was still 13.1 volts.

They said the battery condition window this was sticking about 15 above the battery so then tested the battery again 13.1 volts 24 amps.

For a 110 amp battery 3. Years old I would have thought the battery was the last problem

New battery now so Sorted now

But I never ever thought a battery could have a full charge with next to no amps..


But now I do ….
Click to expand...
Did they put a drop tester on it seeing as it’s a starter battery? That will normally show bad cell(s). It’s quite normal with battery’s to show decent volts but little or no capacity, I did the Bosch PowerFrames in at a year old 🤪
 
nabsim said:
Did they put a drop tester on it seeing as it’s a starter battery? That will normally show bad cell(s). It’s quite normal with battery’s to show decent volts but little or no capacity, I did the Bosch PowerFrames in at a year old 🤪
Click to expand...
I suspect this is the case as well.
The description kind of reminds me of the battery I had in the VW "Sprinter" ... It showed good voltage (so could be described potentially as "fully charged") but was actually knackered and a turn of the key meant lots of clicks and I had to get a jump start every time (I delayed replacing the battery for afew months as I was not actively using the van at that time, but still building it).

Sonar said:
They said the battery condition window this was sticking about 15 above the battery so then tested the battery again 13.1 volts 24 amps.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't expect a battery that is described as full to be able to be taking 24 Amps from a charger?

Sonar said:
For a 110 amp battery 3. Years old I would have thought the battery was the last problem

New battery now so Sorted now

But I never ever thought a battery could have a full charge with next to no amps..


But now I do ….
Click to expand...
3 year old battery ... you would hope it would be better and I'd agree. But at least you have fixed the problem and at a pretty low cost compared to the potential other reasons you could have had to deal with.
 
I always thought when a battery was knackered it was flat and that’s was it.
So it came as a supprise

The 24 amps was what was in the battery but as mentioned still had 13.1 volts.

Now thinking a long set of jump leads that if this happens again I can start the cab battery with .the hab lithium batterys
Or is this never going to be an option .. .

Not really wanting to carry a booster pack.
 
When I took my Bosch battery’s out from hab duties I actually used one of them for a further 18 months as my starter battery. Had I known it would work that long I would have looked after the other 2 instead of leaving them outside on a concrete pad lol
 
Sonar said:
But I never ever thought a battery could have a full charge with next to no amps..
Click to expand...
Sulphation can cause this. Basically most of the surface of the lead plates get silted up, the small area that is left acts like a much smaller battery. It can charge up to the usual voltage but does not have the capacity for the big jobs like starting the engine. Your 110Ah battery may have become a 20Ah battery, enough for lights and horn but not engine starting.
 
nabsim said:
It’s cranking ability on a starter battery though not capacity, I would still expect it to be a dead cell
Click to expand...
If it were a dead cell would it hold 13.1V? I thought it took 6 cells to achieve this voltage. Cranking Amps (CA) is the power the battery can maintain for 30 seconds. This can be a useful measurement for starter batteries but is less useful for leisure ones where Ah are used.

Leisure batteries don’t need high cranking amps and should be designed differently so that they can sustain deeper levels of discharge for longer periods. The high Amps needed for starting requires a greater surface area of lead so starter batteries usually have more but thinner plates. To withstand the longer periods of discharge a basic lead acid leisure battery needs fewer but thicker plates that are less likely to buckle when discharged. Unfortunately some battery distributors just stick different labels on the same batteries to con purchasers. Several years ago one of the clubs cut open several so called leisure batteries only to find out most of them were ordinary engine batteries with different labels.

Lead acid technology has moved on with AGM and Gel batteries and I suspect my simple understanding is now rather out of date.
 
I am a bit conflicted with it. I know my ruined, (as in lost capacity) Bosch PowerFrame battery worked fine for 18 months as a started battery for my Sprinter. They were 90Ah each when new but I doubt had a third of that capacity when I removed them.
Guess unless a drop test was done I won’t know
 
nabsim said:
I am a bit conflicted with it. I know my ruined, (as in lost capacity) Bosch PowerFrame battery worked fine for 18 months as a started battery for my Sprinter. They were 90Ah each when new but I doubt had a third of that capacity when I removed them.
Guess unless a drop test was done I won’t know
Click to expand...
I am surprised that it worked as a starter battery for so long, I think it was sold as deep cycle leisure battery. Perhaps it was built as a so called “dual purpose” battery, I am suspicious that such batteries do neither job particularly well. Others may well have good experiences that prove me wrong and maybe there is a demand for something that sits in the middle.

Just a word of caution for others about not drop testing leisure batteries. Drop testing shows up faults in engine batteries but could damage some leisure batteries that are not designed for the big Amps involved.
 
Sonar said:
An overnight stop

So we stopped overnight on the moors safely in a very quite lay-by.
Up in the morning. Go to start the van . Nothing

Just continues to make a clicking sound .

Did the same noise every time we tried to start.

So three things came to mind

Seized starter motor

Knackered solenoid

Bad earth.



Rocking and then into gear moved the starter still nothing
Tested all the lights horn and everything in the cab . brake lights dash lights indicators
Everything working .

So from the battery a click check with a bit of thick wire battery to engine

Still nothing



The battery showed a full charge.
So now had to call the rescues service we have .

They said it’s the battery. Tested the battery 13.1 volts showing fully charged. Then decided it could be a electrical problem..

Anyway he started the van with a booster pack said run the engine for a good charge.



Anyway within 60 miles on route to our destination we contacted a garage explained everything to them they said it was the battery.
We made our way to the garage .

They removed the cab battery and it was still 13.1 volts.

They said the battery condition window this was sticking about 15 mm above the battery so then tested the battery again 13.1 volts 24 amps.

For a 110 amp battery 3. Years old I would have thought the battery was the last problem

New battery now so Sorted now

But I never ever thought a battery could have a full charge with next to no amps..


But now I do ….
Click to expand...
This is a common misconception. A battery can be fully charged but be 100% unhealthy. I would definitely have a jump pack to save you getting stuck again.
My ‘on the road’ check for the SOC of a battery is connect jump leads and deliberately touch the clips together, if they spark massively then the battery is fine. If you get hardly any sparks the battery is useless. No animals or humans have ever been injured in this process.
 
Excellent test David.
I have never had a flat battery. Even when they have no volts, they have always been cuboid shaped.
.
.
.
I once had a company car, a reasonably newish Peugeot 405. I drove it regularly. One morning it started fine, I drove it 30 miles and parked it. Went to a shop and bought something. Came back to the car, battery deadder than a dead thing. Luckily there was a nearby tyre and battery shop so I fitted a new battery and all was fine. Except the old battery which was indeed dead. An Ex-battery, as Monty Python would say.
 
gasgas said:
Excellent test David.
I have never had a flat battery. Even when they have no volts, they have always been cuboid shaped.
.
.
.
I once had a company car, a reasonably newish Peugeot 405. I drove it regularly. One morning it started fine, I drove it 30 miles and parked it. Went to a shop and bought something. Came back to the car, battery deadder than a dead thing. Luckily there was a nearby tyre and battery shop so I fitted a new battery and all was fine. Except the old battery which was indeed dead. An Ex-battery, as Monty Python would say.
Click to expand...
Same happened with my proton, new one was cheap at £45.
 
gasgas said:
Yes, I seem to remember those cars were cheap. But I think you may have missed a zero off the price.
Click to expand...
Proton savvy was 50% owened by lotus, hence tight suspension and very good handling, big problem is replacement parts, getting front sus struts is impossable, im thinking there must be other cars with the same ones, mitsbushi may be same.
 
Noco is a very handy power pack to keep with you. I carry mine in case I get any issues with the tow car, but it’s powerful enough to start the van if needed.
 
I have two of these now, so useful other than a booster.


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Since getting the new battery fitted everything seems be running a lot better and quieter as well.
Could a knacked battery make everything sound rough .

The guy that runs the storage said the same starts quieter as well.


Or are my hearing aids ready for a replacement.
 
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