Tow Bar and Insurance

2cv

2cv

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I was surprised to read that having a tow bar fitted can invalidate insurance if it’s not notified. It would be interesting with a motorhome to know what other modifications could do this.
www.dailymail.co.uk

Drivers could be invalidating insurance by having a common car feature

One motorist has been left with a six-figure bill when his insurer refused to pay out on a claim and cancelled his policy because it had not been listed as a 'modification'.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
As above you have a duty to disclose material changes to a vehicle to your insurance company ....

Anything none standard from how it wss supplied is a escape route for your insurance company to reduce cover to 3rd party only if they choose to ....meaning you'll have a hell of a battle to recover any of your losses in the event of an accident.
And then a food chance they will come after you to recover the costs paid out to a 3rd party .
 
Interesting point. I remember being asked "has your vehicle been modified", and thinking the whole thing is a modification, but didn't say that. I did reply that as I purchased used, I do not honestly know, they were happy with that. Later I enquired about a few modifications I was about to make, additional solar, upgraded solar controller and inverter, they were not interested in those.
Tongue in cheek I asked about wide wheels, flared arches etc, ah yes we would be interested, unlikely on a motorhome.
I guess if anyone might be concerned it's only a call, or better still an email for an answer.
 
Mine came with a towbar already fitted, I had never thought of it as something to declare as a modification,
I am unlikely to use it for its intended purposes, but I have left it on as I see it as extra protection for the flimsy fibreglass rear end.
Guess I had better inform the insurance company
 
When I had my self-builds I asked the Insurance Brokers (A-Plan generally) if they wanted details - as obviously virtually nothing was "standard" and was a modification.
The response was always to tell them about any vehicle mods that could affect performance but not interested in any camper-related modifications unless I thought they made a difference to the value of the vehicle (as opposed to the safety, which is the only reason an insurance company could legitimately claim insurance was invalidated).
(when I went for a policy with an agreed value, I listed all the 'value' modifications and took photographs but that was purely a requirement for valuations, not safety/performance).
There is not a single campervan or motorhome on the road that is still as it left the factory so if ANY undeclared mods invalidate the insurance, every one will be driving with no insurance.
 
wildebus said:
When I had my self-builds I asked the Insurance Brokers (A-Plan generally) if they wanted details - as obviously virtually nothing was "standard" and was a modification.
The response was always to tell them about any vehicle mods that could affect performance but not interested in any camper-related modifications unless I thought they made a difference to the value of the vehicle (as opposed to the safety, which is the only reason an insurance company could legitimately claim insurance was invalidated).
(when I went for a policy with an agreed value, I listed all the 'value' modifications and took photographs but that was purely a requirement for valuations, not safety/performance).
There is not a single campervan or motorhome on the road that is still as it left the factory so if ANY undeclared mods invalidate the insurance, every one will be driving with no insurance.
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I had a towbar fitted to my motorbike to tow a small (specialised) camping trailer and when asking the broker if that would be ok, they said they would ask the underwriter. They phoned me back saying yes it would be ok. I then asked for confirmation of that in writing (/email) and they said they couldn't provide such. I explained that their word might not mean much in court and if I couldn't get written confirmation I would have to go elsewhere.

The email turned up 5 minutes later. ;-)

It's interesting how fitting a tow bar (and given the potentially increased risk because you will be towing something) has never affected the premium but 'Go faster stripes' might (because they can attract unwanted interest).

I saw something on telly a while back where a s/h car was bought from a local main dealer on HP and later got written off. The Ins Co inspected it and found it had been fitted with 'better' wheels than that model came with but were genuine marque wheels (unbeknown to her) and the Ins Co walked away, still leaving her to pay for a car she couldn't use.
 
2cv said:
I was surprised to read that having a tow bar fitted can invalidate insurance if it’s not notified. It would be interesting with a motorhome to know what other modifications could do this.
www.dailymail.co.uk

Drivers could be invalidating insurance by having a common car feature

One motorist has been left with a six-figure bill when his insurer refused to pay out on a claim and cancelled his policy because it had not been listed as a 'modification'.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
When getting quotes I was asked if a tow bar was fitted.
 
mistericeman said:
Excellent clarification for those,insure through Comfort ...

If only ALL insurance companies declared the same then life would be a lot simpler ...
Sadly a lot seem to prefer to stay on the dark arcane side of things and rely in the proposeer declaring everything that isn't standard to them
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<Devils advocate mode /on> I think the problem with not declaring is that they then leave themselves open to a higher risk. Like why you are supposed to notify them if say your car is broken into, even if you don't claim and fix it yourself because that means the current risk value of your area isn't considered and so your premium wouldn't accurately reflect the risk. You are therefore 'under insured'.

The other thing is trusting Jo Public to both recognise and know what constitutes 'a modification' and how the risk may then change. Whilst fitting a tow bar may increase the risk of something happening to the vehicle *because* there is something being towed (even if only damaging your own car when reversing a small trailer etc) but their stats may show that on average, people who regularly tow things generally have fewer claims than those who don't.

Like adding a second driver to a policy often reduces the premium because they consider both drivers will drive more carefully because they don't want to risk it for the other driver.

I remember when lads would say not report the modification of fitting different wheels (often with spacers) and / or smaller steering wheels, potentially making the vehicle more dangerous and hoping they could change them back before the insurance assessor checked it over after an accident.

The last thing is that many things are going 'template' these days where say a broker will go to an underwriter and propose a package ... insurance, green card, breakdown, hire car etc and anything that doesn't fit 'std' (like my kitcar) can't be covered by this package because there may be NO allowance for 'any' modification in their 'nope' list. <da mode /off>

They can be greedy b's though. WE had a car written off whilst it was parked outside our house and the lorry who did it just drove off. We had Fully Comp and NCB protection and they paid out (£350) but, because they weren't able to claim off anyone to recoup their costs, it went down as a 'blame claim'? It seems they don't want to take any risks themselves. ;-(
 
TimTom said:
<Devils advocate mode /on> I think the problem with not declaring is that they then leave themselves open to a higher risk. Like why you are supposed to notify them if say your car is broken into, even if you don't claim and fix it yourself because that means the current risk value of your area isn't considered and so your premium wouldn't accurately reflect the risk. You are therefore 'under insured'.

The other thing is trusting Jo Public to both recognise and know what constitutes 'a modification' and how the risk may then change. Whilst fitting a tow bar may increase the risk of something happening to the vehicle *because* there is something being towed (even if only damaging your own car when reversing a small trailer etc) but their stats may show that on average, people who regularly tow things generally have fewer claims than those who don't.

Like adding a second driver to a policy often reduces the premium because they consider both drivers will drive more carefully because they don't want to risk it for the other driver.

I remember when lads would say not report the modification of fitting different wheels (often with spacers) and / or smaller steering wheels, potentially making the vehicle more dangerous and hoping they could change them back before the insurance assessor checked it over after an accident.

The last thing is that many things are going 'template' these days where say a broker will go to an underwriter and propose a package ... insurance, green card, breakdown, hire car etc and anything that doesn't fit 'std' (like my kitcar) can't be covered by this package because there may be NO allowance for 'any' modification in their 'nope' list. <da mode /off>

They can be greedy b's though. WE had a car written off whilst it was parked outside our house and the lorry who did it just drove off. We had Fully Comp and NCB protection and they paid out (£350) but, because they weren't able to claim off anyone to recoup their costs, it went down as a 'blame claim'? It seems they don't want to take any risks themselves. ;-(
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It's all loaded in the insurance companies/underwriters favour ...

Even claiming for something that isn't the insured fault will still usually incur loss on 'no claims bonus' as its No claims NOT 'no blames bonus'

I've always found the best approach is to declare everything and make sure you have proof that everything is declared as you'd be amazed how often declarations are 'lost' in the event of a claim ...

Some companies really are teetering on the edge of Sharp practice in my book .
 
mistericeman said:
It's all loaded in the insurance companies/underwriters favour ...

Even claiming for something that isn't the insured fault will still usually incur loss on 'no claims bonus' as its No claims NOT 'no blames bonus'

I've always found the best approach is to declare everything and make sure you have proof that everything is declared as you'd be amazed how often declarations are 'lost' in the event of a claim ...

Some companies really are teetering on the edge of Sharp practice in my book .
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Oh, agreed, many don't do (or appear to do) what Jo Public would consider 'fair, kind and reasonable' but then I guess 'that's business' (in many cases). ;-(

And I can get some of it, knowing how many (more?) people seem to try it on these days with insurance scams of all types.

And I'm 100% with you on pinning any insurance cover down fully (as I'm sure my last AA car insurance agent will confirm). ;-)

One of my favourite Ins Co's is CraftInsure (if I'm allowed to mention). You give them the name and type of boat and the total value of all the kit you could have with it in the case of a total loss (outboard, safety gear etc) and that's what they base the premium on. You change the outboard or even the boat, you change it yourself online with no cost (if I remember correctly, if the risk is the same). Basically it's just seen as 'A risk', it's 'a boat' and boats can be stolen, sink or catch fire and you might mix-and-match stuff. ;-)

And I think for say £4k's worth of boat / package and £3M of 3rd party protection the premium was ~50 quid a year. ;-)
 
last claim I made, the main insurance company paid out the full amount within a couple of weeks of the claim (around £20k or so). They upped the car value payout over the phone when I requested it in order for the GAP insurers to easily pay out their part of the claim (around £8k) which I got after a month from the claim.
I didn't have to provide any receipts for the tools stolen and was told if I find there were others stolen that I hadn't noticed, to let them know so they could pay for them.
And my NCD for the car insurance was not only not affected by the claim, I got an extra year on the renewal quote as it was not the car insurance part of the policy that the claim was paid against!

A previous claim for the OH a few years earlier for a car write off was paid without a problem or delay - and the assessor agreed to up the car value by a few hundred to cover the cost of recent work carried out (advisories following an MOT).

So I guess I don't have such a negative opinion of insurance companies as many others seem to?
 
wildebus said:
So I guess I don't have such a negative opinion of insurance companies as many others seem to?
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I think that can be a function of many factors, as you may have found with an assessor 'upping' the value in consideration of recent work etc.

Others may go 'by the book' and just offer 'current market value', irrespective of what you may have recently spent on it.

Or, if you have a vehicle of significant value and you having a clean slate, you may pay a disproportionally less than someone like me with a low value vehicle. £200 excess is a much bigger hit on a car valued at £350 over one valued at 20K etc. And even though I was also paid out promptly, where would I find a similarly clean and low mileage car that had previously been owned from new by my Dad?

Or maybe things have been improving?
 
Years ago in my caravanning days, I always made a point of telling my car insurance companies that I sometimes towed a caravan (although I never thought to mention that I'd had a towball fitted).
Without exception they all said - thanks for telling us but we don't need to note that.
 
TimTom said:
I think that can be a function of many factors, as you may have found with an assessor 'upping' the value in consideration of recent work etc.

Others may go 'by the book' and just offer 'current market value', irrespective of what you may have recently spent on it.

Or, if you have a vehicle of significant value and you having a clean slate, you may pay a disproportionally less than someone like me with a low value vehicle. £200 excess is a much bigger hit on a car valued at £350 over one valued at 20K etc. And even though I was also paid out promptly, where would I find a similarly clean and low mileage car that had previously been owned from new by my Dad?

Or maybe things have been improving?
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In the case of the write-off, the payout was the princely sum of £1,000 :) upped from £800 when I showed him the bill for optional brake-line repairs (happy with £1,000 as that was what was paid for the car a year or so earlier).

Just in the process of getting a quote for the car insurance due in a fortnight. best price so far is £160 fully comp with protected no-claims and £100 excess total (and £45 cashback so will be £115 (y))
 
new policy purchased ... went for once that cost £177 with better terms but still £45 cashback.
 
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