Ambitious pricing

Surely a radiator does both?
 
A central heating radiator does do both, but it convects a great deal more than it radiates. I don't know the percentage though. Similarly a car engine radiator hardly radiates anything at all, be it black or white!
 
You've lost me I'm afraid.

A radiator is a heat exchanger essentially.

I believe a Convector is a radiator with fins as opposed to a flat surface.

We did all this at school 60 odd years ago.
 
Pudsey Bear said:
We too went to one in Leeds with a good name, apart from the rubbish camping mat style insulation and the kitchen layout fixed in stone we really liked it.
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I seem to remember the one I went to was in Leeds. I bought a Pilote pvc a few years ago and I was seriously impressed with its quilted insulation. Silver foil both sides of some thick duvet-type filling with a diamond quilt stitched in to it so the filling doesn't fall down. I paid £38k for it, new. That was before all the excuses they dreamed up for doubling prices.

EFD1BD47-40EA-4624-8E13-6B78B385E144.jpeg
 
A convector is something that causes convection currents. A radiator is something that sits there and glows. As in my wife's radiant beauty . . . . . .:love:
Will that get me anything tonight? ... .... ... .. Don't be daft.
Or, a radio or TV transmitter antenna. That radiates radio waves - or TV waves. Electromagnetic waves, at very high frequencies.
 
gasgas said:
I seem to remember the one I went to was in Leeds. I bought a Pilote pvc a few years ago and I was seriously impressed with its quilted insulation. Silver foil both sides of some thick duvet-type filling with a diamond quilt stitched in to it so the filling doesn't fall down. I paid £38k for it, new. That was before all the excuses they dreamed up for doubling prices.
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This is the one we visited.

Motorhomes, Panel Vans & Campervans Leeds & UK

Based in Leeds, we sell converted campervans & panel vans across the UK. View our motorhomes, contact us or book a tour today.
www.vantagemotorhomes.co.uk www.vantagemotorhomes.co.uk
 
gasgas said:
A convector is something that causes convection currents. A radiator is something that sits there and glows. As in my wife's radiant beauty . . . . . .:love:
Will that get me anything tonight? ... .... ... .. Don't be daft.
Or, a radio or TV transmitter antenna. That radiates radio waves - or TV waves. Electromagnetic waves, at very high frequencies.
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:D :D :D
 
Norfolk NewBoy said:
Oops! I got that wrong didn't I? :cry:

BUT it still doesn't explain why you think grey is going to be a "bad" colour.
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Grey is a wide range of shades. Nearly white is fine, nearly black is terrible. In between, it's a sliding scale. Dark grey is bad. Matt finish is bad.
 
Orange is the new black this year.
 
gasgas said:
Household water filled room heaters should be called convectors, not radiators. I don't know where the radiator word started but it doesn't radiate much. They should in all reasonableness be matt black which radiates a lot better than white. If you aren't convinced, sit in a white car on a hot summers day, then get into a black car parked next to it and then you will be.
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A better explanation here:

www.britannica.com

Thermal radiation | Definition, Properties, Examples, & Facts | Britannica

Thermal radiation, process by which energy, in the form of electromagnetic radiation, is emitted by a heated surface in all directions and travels directly to its point of absorption at the speed of light; thermal radiation does not require an intervening medium to carry it.
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com
 
The insulation is something to remember when we are walking round the NEC looking at all the shiny new boxes we can't afford. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the respected makes have poor insulation. And ask about the wall insulaton on a coachbuilt. I have two samples of 40mm dia holes I cut in motorhome walls to fit gas filler points, and they reveal quite a lot. My 2009 Hobby had thick outside aluminium walls then 30mm of foam insulation and plywood inner wall (total 35mm thick wall) whereas a british make had plastic inner and outside wall with 22mm of foam insulation. I think this reinforces MMM's expert's recent statement that the best motorhome to get is one built about 2010 when they were built properly and meet Euro4 without all the subsequent emissions stuff for very little gain and very great faultiness.

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I didn't measure the whole for my Gaslow install but my Eyecrometer would guess 20-22mm of polystyrene, ally outer then ply then galv steel.
 
There are several grades of foam insulation. 25mm of the best is far better than 35mm of the cheapest. Some makes have most insulation in the roof, medium in the walls, less in the floor
 
Debate on colour aside, the first one hasn't been painted it is a Wrap.
As it was originally a Crew/Welfare van any sensible purchaser might be right to wonder what state the original paint and bodywork is in under the big stickers!

Wraps can cheaply disguise all sorts of badly bodged accident damage!
 
I can't see where the value is in any normally priced motorhome. For what you get for the money they are just overpriced. There just a van with a cheap wood interior and some electrical stuff, some put together (even coach built) very badly.
The problem is if you want a moho you just have to pay it because unless your very lucky or there completely knackered you wont find a realistically priced one.
 
I keep thinking about how many cruises you can have for the price of a motorhome, or changing your motorhome. Even setting aside the concept of buying a new one, my several experiences of trading one for another is that the dealers make a £10,000 to £15,000 mark up. I once bought a two year old one from a dealer and two weeks later saw they had in stock the same make, model, year and exactly the same price another one with a different layout inside. We had decided the washroom in the one we had bought was not big enough so went back to the dealer to ask about swapping it for the other one. Same year, same make, same length, same price, same model except for two digits but with a different rear layout. They wanted £15,000 to do the swap. I ran away faster than Usain Bolt. A few years ago we did a cruise from Southampton to Sydney, including a week in a hotel in Sydney, and flights back to the UK for a total cost of £7,000 for the two of us. Allowing for inflation, that cost of changing one motorhome for its twin brother would pay for a round-the-world cruise for both of us. It doesn't take long for you to think if you would prefer a round the world cruise or to have the same motorhome with a washroom at the back instead of a washroom half way. Same cost. No contest.
 
AlyJay said:
I can't see where the value is in any normally priced motorhome. For what you get for the money they are just overpriced. There just a van with a cheap wood interior and some electrical stuff, some put together (even coach built) very badly.
......
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I agree absolutely. I recently watched a Youtube video review of a common caravan at the NEC October show. The caravan price was £23,000 and obviously included the bodywork, chassis, wheels and brakes and electrics. And VAT. It had all the innards that you would expect in a 6mtr motorhome or campervan. I may be wrong but let me assume the caravan innards cost for example £12k. Furniture, bedding, gas combi boiler, lights, plumbing, cooker, washroom, kitchen. I then priced up buying a brand new Fiat Ducato high roof long wheelbase (not 6mtr) van and it was £42k (A swb low roof is £31k) including all the taxes and the taxes on the taxes. (A vehicle has VAT on top of the car tax. In other words the car tax is taxed). I am going to be rash and assume that the construction costs of the furniture - cupboards, tables, chairs, kitchen units would be the same for a van and a caravan. The caravan already has its body included in the £23,000 and so does the panel van in its £42,000 so there can't be any costs associated with the bodywork. The only difference really is that the panel van has to be insulated. They both have to be wired up with mains and 12v, they both have leisure batteries and the associated wiring, they both have hot and cold water, a kitchen sink and a toilet. So how does £23,000 plus £42,000 suddenly become an £80,000 panel van conversion? Specially when the major converters wouldn't be paying anything like retail for the vans. I once was manufacturing a product for Rover cars. I asked if I could buy the 'Brochure car' - the one with seven coats of hand finished paint and all the accessories. They said it will be crushed. "If we were to sell it to you we would have to register it as a car, and pay VAT on it. We can make another car for less than the VAT". That tells you what it costs them to make a car. Less than the VAT they would have to pay.
 
gasgas said:
I keep thinking about how many cruises you can have for the price of a motorhome,
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Oddly I had the opposite conversation with Liz at the weekend, she just paid a grand for a week's cruise which included a bus trip down to Heathrow, hours and hours in 4 airports, hours and hours on a train up from Stansted, then moaned about how much a trip to France would cost, no comparison to my mind, she must be mad, not to mention all the effing about getting the best deal for weeks on end.
 
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