Engine braking practical

[guerdeval]

Weight is the biggest issue here, I was a HGV driving instructor and MOT approved car instructor with years of HGV experience but only last Month descending the Grossglocker in Austria I had severe brake failure, I had no waste on board and very little fresh so I had planned ahead but despite only 11000miles on the clock my brakes gave out half way down, I managed to stop in a lay-by and waited almost 2 hours before I was confident to move on, I had used engine braking but I had under-estimated the braking capability of the van (3500kg Relay), no kidding it was a serious issue, we had to jam a brick under the wheel before it would hold in reverse gear! , always get rid of excess weight whenever possible.

 

[Trotter]

A flatulent moment Just as well you remembered your "old fashioned" training, not some of the nonsense previously written.

 

[Barge1914]

Weight is the biggest issue here, I was a HGV driving instructor and MOT approved car instructor with years of HGV experience but only last Month descending the Grossglocker in Austria I had severe brake failure, I had no waste on board and very little fresh so I had planned ahead but despite only 11000miles on the clock my brakes gave out half way down, I managed to stop in a lay-by and waited almost 2 hours before I was confident to move on, I had used engine braking but I had under-estimated the braking capability of the van (3500kg Relay), no kidding it was a serious issue, we had to jam a brick under the wheel before it would hold in reverse gear! , always get rid of excess weight whenever possible.

Glad it wasn’t worse. We came down there a few days ago. Bessacarr Fiat Ducato. Engine breaking in second most of the way, with a couple of dabs of brake now and then to stop it running away. Let all the boy racers wash past, occasionally swinging into a lay-by to avoid unduly holding up more agile vehicles...gaining waves of appreciation. No problems. Brakes didn’t smell too bad when we stopped, as we did often as there’s just so much to see, and no desire to rush it.

 

[Winks]

Always engine brake just out of habit really. The other bit about heat generation is its effect on brake fluid boiling point. That is why manufacturers recommend a change of fluid at certain intervals. I do remember the hopeless feeling of severe brake fade in a 1969 Mini coming down Hardknott Pass though.

Cheers

H

 

[Trek]

Some years ago i bought a nearly new diesel fiat punto to replace my company car And put over 100,000 miles on it with out changing any brake pads

Great Little 1.3 litre engine had nice braking effect

Person who bought it off me eventually had front pads changed at 120k

 

[saxonborg]

You see signs at the top of long steep descents which usually state “ ENGAGE LOW GEAR” it only means one thing to me, engine braking!

 

[SimonM]

My DSG car changes down as soon as I start to go downhill, long before I need to start using the brakes.

While I was in the Pyrenees a few weeks ago the smell of roasted brake pads was very apparent, not a pleasant smell these days. I'll always change down and allow the MH to slow with dabs of the pedal to keep it from overspeeding.

I wonder how many people actually refresh their brake fluid on a regular basis?

A picture of 30k miles old pads, I'm glad we checked at the service.

 

[Carrerasax]

Judging by posts are brakes up to the job or should these vehicles come with engine braking recommendations.
Our pads groaned horrible after we had first overheat at about ?3000 miles!!!!

 

[blosax]

I go along with the above for general driving. (A long downhill descent might mean using the engine but that is not a regular event for most).
I still recall my Driving Instructors mantra 4 decades ago .... " Engines are for going, Brakes are for slowing".

Definitely use engine braking on long steep descents. My Ducati is 5 years old and I ran a long steep descent in Devon this Summer, 2nd gear at 2500 revs, plus brakes and I still experienced some brake fade. Good judgement and common sense will keep you safe

 

[Pedalman]

I understand the use of engine braking on a long decent with a big motorhome, HGV or a heavy trailer. In my T4 I use both ( but mostly the brakes) because if you underuse the brakes I find the sliders will start sticking then you get red hot discs and wheels, uneven pad and disc wear, and half rusty discs. I don't like changing down to a lower gear solely for braking for bends.
I know someone who prides herself on reading the road and not using the brakes, it is a challenge that has become an OCD and she is in the garage getting the brakes lubricated more than normal.
On many occasions when she parks up you can smell the hot sticking brakes, there was a couple of occasions when it was impossible to touch the Front N/S wheel because it was so hot.

 

[nabsim]

My earlier posts were really concerning car driving, I have found on the last few auto cars I have had engine braking is hardly there, but Luke a two stroke bike compared to a four stroke.

The van is a sprintshift auto and while I do not engage engine braking the box does. On steep hills if I slow with brakes it then changes itself to a low gear and holds it back.

If it didn’t do this then I would probably see how good the manual mode worked as it is a 4 tonne van and I agree with all the lorry drivers here have said.

It will be different for all you folks driving with manual gearboxes, you always rely on the brakes more with an auto. I think cars should be fine using just the brakes, all mine have been, but with heavier vehicles you need to use brakes and engine on steep or long descents.

 

[Trotter]

Your auto box allows you to down shift then. If that was the case, I'd reckon using that would be a better/safer option than letting the gearbox choose it's own gear. I like to be in control.

Who is this Luke the 2 stroke bike ? Betcha, it's another typo was going to give you the digit, couldn't find it.

 

[wildebus]

Earlier in this thread I noticed two separate points I'd take issue with.
1," Engines for going, brakes for slowing." Notice when you ease the pressure on the accelerator pedal, or feathering, the vehicle will slow. This is "Engine breaking" Your doing it, every time. When I was taught to drive, the mantra was,"Off the gas, let it roll." Engine breaking would occur unless pressure was kept on the accelerator
.2, "Engine Braking is not taught anymore". No one is taught to drive anymore. They're taught to "Pass the Test." Nothing more. That's why the standard of driving is so pathetic. When was anyone taught to drive with a fag in one hand and a cell phone in the other. Never, but you see it everyday.

"No one is taught to drive anymore. They're taught to "Pass the Test." " - that has ALWAYS been the case. not a modern fad or phenomenon, but since the driving test was first instigated. You learn how to drive properly AFTER you pass the test. it's called "real life"
"Notice when you ease the pressure on the accelerator pedal, or feathering, the vehicle will slow" - oh. I never noticed that! I though a car was a miracle of perpetual motion. thanks for the insight
"Off the gas, let it roll." is exactly the same as " Engines for going, brakes for slowing." - basically you don't change down gear to make the car slow down, you let it do it naturally in the current gear, (unless you think an instructor saying " Engines for going, brakes for slowing." was telling you to take the car out of gear every time you take the foot off the accelerator?)

All these people who are saying people who don't use engine braking are crap drivers are being very silly indeed. maybe they need to be clear what circumstances when it is appropriate - unless they are saying always?
a 30tonne truck driving down a alpine pass ? hmmm, yeah maybe it is good idea to employ the engine to help keep the vehicle slowing. a small hatchback car on the level needing to slow down for traffic lights ahead or maybe a curve? oh yes, lets drop a couple of gears to slow that mother down, eh!

you use the appropriate tools to slow a vehicle down. Those tools are BRAKES. Those tools also happen to be the ENGINE. Which is the right tool/s and by how much depends on the vehicle - weight and speed; and on the road - incline/decline, surface, straightness (can't think of a better term but I am sure there is one). There is no one size fits all answer, so enough with all the patronising comments from 'professional' drivers please.

 

[Trotter]

Not 100% sure if you're agreeing with me, having a go at me, or simply taking the p...

All I can add is, you have an opinion as do I. I am of the opinion that I am, as always, right. Smiles sweetly ( can't find an appropriate emoji )

 

[wildebus]

Not 100% sure if you're agreeing with me, having a go at me, or simply taking the p...

All I can add is, you have an opinion as do I. I am of the opinion that I am, as always, right. Smiles sweetly ( can't find an appropriate emoji )

I am agreeing with some, not with some other, but not taking the p... - I don't do that. (but there is a touch of sarcasm indicated with the wink emoji)

 

[Trotter]

I know what you mean. I was looking with an emoji," tongue in cheek" Being on the road most days, the standard of driving I see is dreadful. Scary really.
Ps. I admire your van.

 

[nabsim]

Not 100% sure if you're agreeing with me, having a go at me, or simply taking the p...

All I can add is, you have an opinion as do I. I am of the opinion that I am, as always, right. Smiles sweetly ( can't find an appropriate emoji )

Ha Ha Del, is that just before you wake up or have you got some better drugs than me?

I do take the pee but hopefully in an amusing way and not nastily, except with Del

 

[trevskoda]

Kids are not taught engine brake these days as pads are cheaper,but you are told to select the proper gear for the rd conditions,so car bus truck you select a low gear for long down hills and of on braking to let disks cool,known as ackerman braking, some modern cars use pulse braking.
One thing for sure you dont just kick down gears to slow as it wears out transmission/drive parts faster,its old hat.

 

[Trotter]

Ha Ha Del, is that just before you wake up or have you got some better drugs than me?

I do take the pee but hopefully in an amusing way and not nastily, except with Del

Leave me alone you bully. I don't know, you befriend someone and this is how they treat you.

 

[Squeegee]

Am I right in thinking that the brakes work less well when they're very hot because old brake fluid absorbs water, so that when heated, this turns to steam and so stops the brakes working? I only suggest this as it happened to me once coming down from the French ski resort La Plagne. Gave me nightmares afterwards. New brake fluid that day.