12V switching off.

[sydnsue]

We know of one case where a Fogstar decided to turn itself off in the middle of the owner taking a shower!
Was quite flummoxing and three or four people standing around the van trying to work out why the system complained of low voltage whenever any load (such as a couple of LED lights) was put on.


This is logical, but actually incorrect.
Continuing from the waffle above, we were checking the voltages with a multimeter and they all read ok with lights off, including on the battery terminals. But what had happened was the Fogstar battery had switched off, and the voltage being read on the battery terminals was actually being provided by the Victron MPPT Solar Controller. To check the battery voltage accurately, you need to remove either the -ve or the +ve connection on the battery, and to read the voltage even approximately you need to turn off all chargers.

Someone (not me, I think) had the bright idea of going into the Fogstar App and found the disharge option was toggled off! Turned back on and all good again
No idea how it got turned off - As mentioned, the owner was in the shower when the power failed so wasn't him. Was it a glitch? was it a naughty camper playing games? (there is no password/pin protection in the Fogstar App so ANYONE with the app can go into any battery they find and mess around with the settings That needs fixing, Fogstar!), or was it someone with their own Fogstar battery turning it off but logging onto the wrong one accidently?




You need to get one to keep in the Camper! EVERYONE should carry a basic toolkit such as multimeter, spare fuses, spanners and screwdrivers.

Got all the rest of it. Left the meter in the workshop.

 

[sydnsue]

Yeh, only considered EHU but of course there's a second input via solar too that needs to be removed before checking the battery voltage.
It's funny how so many MH owners have spent thousands of pounds on their second home and travel around with little or no knowledge or tools to remedy basic issues. As you say a DVM can be had for less than a fiver and a DC clamp meter capable of measuring both voltage and current for about £30, pretty much an essential piece of kit IMHO. I guess lots of folk don't bother because they don't understand electrics and don't know how to use a meter but peeps can always get advice on here on how and what to check for, no good if you've not got a meter

As I said, left the meter in workshop. And yes, I was an engineer so I'm not a thicko.

 

[sydnsue]

I had already checked the app and discharge is on. I guessed it would be cos the power went off while in use. No one nearby had a Fogstar Bluetooth.

 

[Bouydog]

We know of one case where a Fogstar decided to turn itself off in the middle of the owner taking a shower!
Was quite flummoxing and three or four people standing around the van trying to work out why the system complained of low voltage whenever any load (such as a couple of LED lights) was put on.


This is logical, but actually incorrect.
Continuing from the waffle above, we were checking the voltages with a multimeter and they all read ok with lights off, including on the battery terminals. But what had happened was the Fogstar battery had switched off, and the voltage being read on the battery terminals was actually being provided by the Victron MPPT Solar Controller. To check the battery voltage accurately, you need to remove either the -ve or the +ve connection on the battery, and to read the voltage even approximately you need to turn off all chargers.

Someone (not me, I think) had the bright idea of going into the Fogstar App and found the disharge option was toggled off! Turned back on and all good again
No idea how it got turned off - As mentioned, the owner was in the shower when the power failed so wasn't him. Was it a glitch? was it a naughty camper playing games? (there is no password/pin protection in the Fogstar App so ANYONE with the app can go into any battery they find and mess around with the settings That needs fixing, Fogstar!), or was it someone with their own Fogstar battery turning it off but logging onto the wrong one accidently?




You need to get one to keep in the Camper! EVERYONE should carry a basic toolkit such as multimeter, spare fuses, spanners and screwdrivers.

Regarding the lack of password protection on the Fogstar app I have realised that the battery will only connect to one Bluetooth device at a time, would using an old phone as an always on display provide protection from unwanted interference or is there a better solution ?

 

[Okta]

No one nearby had a Fogstar Bluetooth.

How do you know? Anyone can download the app and wander around a site looking for a victim or perhaps a legitimate user was passing and thought they were switching off their battery.

 

[wildebus]

How do you know? Anyone can download the app and wander around a site looking for a victim or perhaps a legitimate user was passing and thought they were switching off their battery.

I guess you could start the App and see what you can see yourself if any others around? But still doesn't preclude a mischevious bugger without a Fogstar battery running the app .....

 

[wildebus]

Regarding the lack of password protection on the Fogstar app I have realised that the battery will only connect to one Bluetooth device at a time, would using an old phone as an always on display provide protection from unwanted interference or is there a better solution ?

That could be an interesting idea if on a busy site.

An aside but kind of related .... I used to sell quite a few remote-control LED light dimmers - and had one installed myself as well.

Was at a festival one time and the lights kept turning off! Someone close by must have had one of these dimmers in their van as they all worked on the same frequency
Or could be like Poltegeist?

 

[CriftinsCampers]

The lack of common sense security in BT seems quite the norm and is really surprising when you often need a password, provide your inside leg measurement and confirm texted security code just to do something mundane like check the weather!

There’s no security for my Renogy battery, mppt controller or so called smart shunt,
Nor for my Ablemail BT adapter connected to the AMT12 or to any BM2 device
Everything is totally wide open.

The only slight benefit is the fact the BT range is so dire that someone would have to be and remain very close to gain access.

Renogy stuff is so buggy you probably wouldn’t know if anyone had been fiddling or the thing had screwed itself! Half the time their own dire DChome app won’t connect and right now my smart shunt randomly beeps due to a firmware bug despite all the alarms supposedly being turned off.

Someone maliciously fiddling with the shunt could set off lots of annoying alarms but fiddling with the mppt controller settings could be more serious especially if forcing the output voltage too high

I am going 100% Victron in my latest project as they do use a PIN code

 

[wildebus]

The lack of common sense security in BT seems quite the norm and is really surprising when you often need a password, provide your inside leg measurement and confirm texted security code just to do something mundane like check the weather!

There’s no security for my Renogy battery, mppt controller or so called smart shunt,
Nor for my Ablemail BT adapter connected to the AMT12 or to any BM2 device
Everything is totally wide open.

The only slight benefit is the fact the BT range is so dire that someone would have to be and remain very close to gain access.

Renogy stuff is so buggy you probably wouldn’t know if anyone had been fiddling or the thing had screwed itself! Half the time their own dire DChome app won’t connect and right now my smart shunt randomly beeps due to a firmware bug despite all the alarms supposedly being turned off.

Someone maliciously fiddling with the shunt could set off lots of annoying alarms but fiddling with the mppt controller settings could be more serious especially if forcing the output voltage too high

I am going 100% Victron in my latest project as they do use a PIN code

I am intriqued by Bouydog Daves idea of having a mobile always connected to the device you want others to not be able to fiddle with/access as a way to prevent connections. It is not as convenient as a pin number by any means but as a work around for the manufacturers lack of security it has distinct merit and possibilities.

 

[Bouydog]

I am intriqued by Bouydog Daves idea of having a mobile always connected to the device you want others to not be able to fiddle with/access as a way to prevent connections. It is not as convenient as a pin number by any means but as a work around for the manufacturers lack of security it has distinct merir and possibilities.

I have now adopted this method using an old mobile permanently connected my battery is now invisible to other Bluetooth devices, and as the phone is always in the van the Fogstar app is as readily accessible as using my current phone. Still intrigued by the shown capacity @300ah.

 

[CriftinsCampers]

I am not convinced all BT devices are single channel, My Renogy One Core can connect to my three bits of kit at the same time I can view them with my iPad

As an aside my One Core died last month it took Renogy after only two outings one being the Orkney trip, three weeks of me jumping through their hoops to agree to replace it despite multiple reports of the exact same fault across the world, they run hot, and in an already hot van in full sun probably get too hot and the power supplies seem to croak.

So if your One core goes blank, feels warm and makes a noticeable hissing noise it is kaput.

 

[Okta]

The new Roamer Smart 4 batteries have a bluetooth pin number and a further password to access the battery settings.

 

[sydnsue]

I see my original subject strayed off line but here is an update on my woes in Spain. If you recall, I phoned Fogstar and explained the power was switching off. He reckoned it was the PDU. I phoned the dealer, Dolphin Motorhomes who were sure it was the PDU wasn't compatible with lithium. They reckoned it needed a balancer whatever that is. Today on recommendation I bought a new AGM and swapped it over with the lithium. Tried it outside the shop and all was working again. Yay. Tonight after driving for many hours we stopped for the night. No power again. Looks like 180 euros wasted. I imagine it is the PDU but I have no idea what to do. I disconnect and then reconnect the battery and fridge comes on with gas setting. I press power button in van and fridge panel goes dark.
So for the next 3 weeks we have no lights, no water pump. Luckily heating not required. Gas cooker works with a gas lighter. Fridge ok so long as I don't click the power button. Was trying not to spend too much as we are changing the van on return to UK.

 

[merl]

I see my original subject strayed off line but here is an update on my woes in Spain. If you recall, I phoned Fogstar and explained the power was switching off. He reckoned it was the PDU. I phoned the dealer, Dolphin Motorhomes who were sure it was the PDU wasn't compatible with lithium. They reckoned it needed a balancer whatever that is. Today on recommendation I bought a new AGM and swapped it over with the lithium. Tried it outside the shop and all was working again. Yay. Tonight after driving for many hours we stopped for the night. No power again. Looks like 180 euros wasted. I imagine it is the PDU but I have no idea what to do. I disconnect and then reconnect the battery and fridge comes on with gas setting. I press power button in van and fridge panel goes dark.
So for the next 3 weeks we have no lights, no water pump. Luckily heating not required. Gas cooker works with a gas lighter. Fridge ok so long as I don't click the power button. Was trying not to spend too much as we are changing the van on return to UK.

What pdu do you have?

 

[sydnsue]

BCA but only has Elddis part number on it. It has mains trips above and fuses below to the left. I've seen photos where the back lifts up for some reason. I know zilch about them.

 

[sydnsue]

Here it is.

 

[merl]

Here it is.

Can't find a full schematic for it so it's not easy to ascertain what could be happening with absolute accuracy. At first I thought one of the many 12v circuits could be overloaded and this was causing some sort of automatic power trip out but I really can't see any company trying to incorporate such a unit, after all you've got fuses to do that job anyway.
Your lights, pump etc are all taken back to the pdu as is the power from the leisure battery, it appears (from the only schematic I can find) the pdu has relays acting as isolation switches in the negatives. Personally, rather than struggling for 3 weeks I'd be tracing the negatives to lights, pump etc within the unit and linking them directly to the leisure battery negative and effectively bypassing the switching altogether enabling critical stuff to remain operational.
A multimeter would be really handy checking the above out!

 

[sydnsue]

I wondered about that but I've never done anything with PDUs and I'm expecting a mass of wires. Don't want to make things any worse. I will be near a workshop on Monday so will have a word with them.

 

[marchie]

I wondered about that but I've never done anything with PDUs and I'm expecting a mass of wires. Don't want to make things any worse. I will be near a workshop on Monday so will have a word with them.

If you're anywhere near Benicarlo, Tambo Motorhomes are great. Not cheap, but thorough, and Ramon (Tambo) started as Motorhomers (think he may have worked at the Benimar factory), and built up the repair and servicing side. He brought a caravan fridge back to life in 2 hours when another 'engineer' said it was incapable of being repaired, and Ramon is skilled at taking the manufacturer system, spotting the weak point, and putting in an adaptation that will give a permanent fix. And you can park the M/home outside overnight if the same day fix is not possible. He always has at least 1 French/German/British M/homer 'xyz stopped working last night; we're on our 3 months Winter Sun Trip' in the 'Emergency Bay'! It was what spurred his business growth ...

Steve

 

[wildebus]

It sounds like the problem can be created at will now and the 12V got back by a set process? If that is the case, then it will be a lot easier to resolve than an intermittent fault so good news there. Just a matter of being methodical in the troubleshooting.

As far as the BCA unit goes, they are pretty basic things. The comment about not being compatible with Lithium might be around the charger part, but I can't see how the 12V distribution side would care about if you have lead or lithium, and your issue is when you are using the battery, not charging it, so I don't quite get the advice from a dealer to fit a new PDU?
Things may have got lost in translation and misunderstood so maybe missing some point. How you are trying to investigate this issue without a multimeter baffles me TBH. Ok, you left it in your workshop. I read that... Buy another one!
You need to keep one in the van anyway. You need another one regardless so it it not a waste of money and may have helped you potentially saving €180 on another battery which was not needed and possibly £265 on an overpriced BCA unit.