Battery Upgrade... Drop in?

wildebus

wildebus

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There is a lot of talk on forums about "Drop In" Battery Upgrades, and people who actually understand these things know that the suppliers who claim their Lithium batteries are "Drop In" upgrades are talking out their posteriors (unless the motorhome in question happened to have been upgraded in the past with updated chargers, maybe monitors as well, or is very new and up to date).

This would be my reality of a "drop in" Battery Upgrade...
Mismatched/Unoptimised cabled 170Ah worth of basic Lead Acid Batteries at 10AM

Bursner BatBox - Original by David, on Flickr

Matched and Optimized pair of 160Ah (so 320Ah worth) of Lead Carbon batteries at 1PM

Bustner BatBox - 2 x 160Ah by David, on Flickr

No significant changes made to the cabling (just remade terminals and connected in the correct manner) and no changes needed to the battery enclosure apart from repositioning the floor locking brackets
So easily more than doubled the usable capacity of the Motorhome Leisure Battery system with 320Ah of Lead Carbon loveliness at no more than the price of a single basic 100Ah Lithium, and with no additional changes demanded (unlike the Lithium).
What's not to like :)
 
Barge1914 said:
How does weight of lead carbon compare with lead acid?
Click to expand...
the basic rule of thumb with Lead Acid battery technology is weight = energy. So a heavier battery will store more usuable power.
a 100Ah Lead Carbon can provide a lot more energy than a 100Ah Wet Cell Lead Acid over both its lifetime and per use cycle.
 
460ah lithium 38kg so what would lead carbon weight be to get same amount of stored power.
 
Mr and Mrs Tupcox said:
460ah lithium 38kg so what would lead carbon weight be to get same amount of stored power.
Click to expand...
to answer the question more sensibly ( :D )
maybe you take your Litium down to 10% SOC (so leaving a little bit of a backup?), you have around 415Ah Usable on your Lithium? reasonable assumption?
With Lead Carbon batteries, you can take them down to 35% SOC without any dramas. In my last camper I had 3 x 215Ah Lead Carbon AGMs, which if taking 35% as the basement would give you around the same (412Ah).

Obviously weight and footprint can be a key factor and if you don't have space or payload then a big Lead Bank is not an option. The 645Ah Battery Bank above weighed in at 200Kg, but even with those installed I still had a tonne available, so the weight didn't matter (but the cost certainly did!)

The great thing about Lead Carbon is a combination of a couple of features:
  • A high Duty Cycle compared to the typical Lead Acid Batteries.
    • The ones in the photo above are rated at over 1500 cycles at 50% SOC. The Typical Banner Bull Lead Acid battery frequently supplied with Motorhomes are rated at around 200 Cycles at 50%.
  • Discharged until Dead without harm.
    • Unlike normal Lead Acid Batteries, Lead Carbon batteries can be discharged down to 0% SOC without any damage, just like Lithium can. Doing this often will affect the Cycle count, just as it does with Lithium however. Even if you DID discharge one of these to 0% SOC each time, you would still have much better cycle count than that Banner Bull battery taken no lower than 50%
This means if you had a Lead Carbon bank, you could design the setup so in your regular camping use you go down to say 50% SOC and get a very long cycle count. Then you have a very nice "reserve tank" of energy to use whenever you like/need without concern, taking down to 35% (that is the 'prefer not to drop down to' value for me) or even lower if need be.
And of course, by keeping to a Lead Acid setup, you don't need to start changing chargers, adding a battery monitor, etc. Maybe improving the chargers and adding a monitor is a a good idea (improving is ALWAYS good), but it is a choice and not an absolute requirement - and those requirements make installing Lithium a lot pricier than juat buying a battery and dropping it in. (to repeat, there is NO SUCH THING as a Lithium Drop in ;) ).


As a slight aside, I came across this video recently and it is a very nicely summary of what Lithium is about, including the different types and installing them.
Note that the presenter actually runs a Lithium Battery company and is talking with a good level of experience and knowledge.
I am linking to the point where the question of "Lithium Drop Ins" comes up, but I would recommend the entire video.
 
@wildebus
Your post reminds me of this sales spiel from KS energy which I do hope no one ever took as being anything other than an optimistic opinion for marketing porpoises!

Lead Replacement

Replacing a lead battery with a lithium battery. We examine the differences in detail.
www.ksenergy.co.uk www.ksenergy.co.uk
 
He did do some testing on a Fiat Ducato though but didn't seem to get my point that not all vans are equal......

 
CriftinsCampers said:
@wildebus
Your post
Click to expand...
Which post? I made a few on this thread.

I'm a bit concerned that you think I made a post that suggests the same thing as the post you link to below! And especially as I didn't really discuss any features and benefits of Lithium Batteries as far as I can see in any kind of detail?
CriftinsCampers said:
reminds me of this sales spiel from KS energy which I do hope no one ever took as being anything other than an optimistic opinion for marketing porpoises!

Lead Replacement

Replacing a lead battery with a lithium battery. We examine the differences in detail.
www.ksenergy.co.uk www.ksenergy.co.uk
Click to expand...
 
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@wildebus
your first post, I was agreeing with you!
Sadly that sort of 'advice' from the likes of KS energy could easily mislead the gullible and naive out there.
 
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