Burstner Floor Delamination

[marchie]

It was quite an exciting time for us at Jeff & Lorraine's trio of Rallies, starting with 'over testing' the capacity of thenew inverter and the Leisure Battery, before moving through to an inadvertent overdose of a medication; and then, I noticed that the floor area, where the drop down bed ladder sits had become a little bouncy ...

Phoned Camper UK at Lincoln who told me that a: it was a known issue with the delamination; b: with a 2016 Van, Burstner would charge a £1700 contribution for the lower floor replacement [the entire rear floor has to be removedconcurrently with the kitchen and bathroom units, and a new floor installed, including a strengthening 6mm top sheet of ply under a new floor covering, a 25-30 hours job over 2-3 weeks], that reduces head height by 6mm; and c: the earliest date for the work is 2nd December 2024! Gives me time to save up the customer contribution, and we will get the Van back for Xmas, so not all bad news ... Although, this buggers up any Plans for a late November Ferry Crossing for Spanish Winter Sun!

If we decide to sell Brunhilde in the meantime, the booking for the repair work is transferable to the new owner!

Steve

 

[wildebus]

Sounds very involved!
Now this video may be of interest .... It is from Camper UK about how they fix Burstner floor delamination issues

This is only from one month ago and is a much less involved process than the one you describe as them proposing to do.
Are there different types of Burstner flooring with different areas and degrees of delamination? maybe different age vans have different floors and can be repaired in different ways?
Maybe this repair they found to be inadequate and had to go with a full floor replacement?

I think I would be inclined to ask a few questions regarding the approach in this video compared to the full floor replacement (the repair in the video would be significantly cheaper and quicker to do).

 

[cheyenne]

hi. don't mean to be a ( t--t ) but if it was us we would get rid done it before twice lost loads of money with owning a m/h's
i thought having a uk van was the only ones to have problems BUT having said that good luck we have been there got the tee-shirt . cheyenne

 

[marchie]

Sounds very involved!
Now this video may be of interest .... It is from Camper UK about how they fix Burstner floor delamination issues

This is only from one month ago and is a much less involved process than the one you describe as them proposing to do.
Are there different types of Burstner flooring with different areas and degrees of delamination? maybe different age vans have different floors and can be repaired in different ways?
Maybe this repair they found to be inadequate and had to go with a full floor replacement?

I think I would be inclined to ask a few questions regarding the approach in this video compared to the full floor replacement (the repair in the video would be significantly cheaper and quicker to do).

Charlotte McCracken at Camper UK explained the process during 2 telephone conversations and in each call, she referred to the removal of the lower floor. She said that the work involves 25-30 hours of work over 2-3 weeks [so she could confirm that the 2nd December booking would get the Van returned for collection before Xmas], and she did refer to the plywood sheeting use, although she referred to 'losing about 5mm of headroom', rather than a 6mm plywood sheet use! It would be odd for the Dealer to have staff telling customers about one set of procedures for the remedial work, when the same Dealer, at the same premises, then produces a video showing a much curtailed process. That's just inviting complaints and criticism!

It's possible that the video describes the general principles/main steps of the repair [a video of the glue setting would be less exciting than one of watching paint dry], Dan's video describes a small area of floor, whereas ours follows the pattern described by Charlotte of relatively quick spread of the delamination back into the bathroom area [and the spread began some 48 hours after we found the initial delamination]

Camper UK are working to Burstner's approved technical repair process, and, to some degree, it doesn't matter what is done, or the methodology, as long as; a] the repair provides a permanent solution; b] the repair certificate is proof of a proper repair to the approved specification; and c] the Van does not lose a shedload of value because of the original floor delamination

Comments on another Forum referred to Burstner making a '£1700 contribution towards the cost' demand as a non-negotiable requirement for Vans over 5 years old, so, irrespective of whether I am happy/unhappy with the Burstner Customer Service and technical work, my only recourse would be to take my custom elsewhere if I choose to sell the Van. 'If someone's got you by the short and curlies, wriggling is only going to increase the discomfort/pain' is a practical synopsis ...

Steve

 

[wildebus]

hi. don't mean to be a ( t--t ) but if it was us we would get rid done it before twice lost loads of money with owning a m/h's
i thought having a uk van was the only ones to have problems BUT having said that good luck we have been there got the tee-shirt . cheyenne

I love this theory that UK vans are always built badly and German vans are perfect
Oft quoted, never realised.

 

[maingate]

I love this theory that UK vans are always built badly and German vans are perfect
Oft quoted, never realised.

That theory was generally accurate up to around 2007. Many coachbuilts were between 5.5 metres and 6.5 metres. Anything 7 metres or more was a 'big' van.

Then the race began to build bigger vans but keep them under 3.5 tonnes (this due to European driving licence restrictions, stricter than the UK). At the same time the demand was for bigger Fridge/Freezers, bigger heating systems for the bigger vans, larger bathrooms and all the little extras. Weight became a great problem leading to less substantial fittings and weight saved at the expense of quality and longevity.

In this particular case, the same fault is common to a model and this looks like bad design in one area.

 

[SquirrellCook]

Buffalo board is best for motorhome flooring, but it's very heavy. Murky's wet room is lined with it.

 

[mistericeman]

Think I'd be spending a lump less than £1700 on one of the delamination kits (resin+ dowels) available and doing it myself ....
Especially if I was considering selling the van sometime soon .

 

[HurricaneSmith]

That's appalling bad luck. Is it a typo, and they really mean 2nd December 2023?

I'd be keen to understand the implication on it's 3500kg backed up by weighbridge documentation.

 

[wildebus]

That's appalling bad luck. Is it a typo, and they really mean 2nd December 2023?

I'd be keen to understand the implication on it's 3500kg backed up by weighbridge documentation.

It's 2024!

 

[marchie]

That's appalling bad luck. Is it a typo, and they really mean 2nd December 2023?

I'd be keen to understand the implication on it's 3500kg backed up by weighbridge documentation.

No, it's December 2024 ... The only additional weight is the 6mm layer of plywood, so perhaps 2-3kg at most. Camper UK are the official UK Repairer nominated and trained by Burstner to carry out the work [there was a plan to use South Coast Motorhomes as well, but that may have gone by the board [no pun intended] during the COVID pandemic

Ironically, the Van has been parked up in the shade outside our flat since yesterday lunchtime and the temperature is several degrees lower than those encountered on the 3 rallies. The floorcovering layer has shrunk in the cool, and whilst I can feel some deformation as a ridge [as though 2 adjoining pieces of T&G have misaligned], the floorcovering 'bubbling' of 2-3mm that I video'd and sent to Camper UK has almost disappeared! No doubt when the Van returns to standing in the sun, the floorcovering bubbling will return ... Bad news for a December repair in Lincoln!

Steve

 

[wildebus]

No, it's December 2024 ... The only additional weight is the 6mm layer of plywood, so perhaps 2-3kg at most. Camper UK are the official UK Repairer nominated and trained by Burstner to carry out the work [there was a plan to use South Coast Motorhomes as well, but that may have gone by the board [no pun intended] during the COVID pandemic

Ironically, the Van has been parked up in the shade outside our flat since yesterday lunchtime and the temperature is several degrees lower than those encountered on the 3 rallies. The floorcovering layer has shrunk in the cool, and whilst I can feel some deformation as a ridge [as though 2 adjoining pieces of T&G have misaligned], the floorcovering 'bubbling' of 2-3mm that I video'd and sent to Camper UK has almost disappeared! No doubt when the Van returns to standing in the sun, the floorcovering bubbling will return ... Bad news for a December repair in Lincoln!

Steve

would it be worth trying a DIY repair given that experience? maybe it won't be "burstner approved" but neither will it be £1700. You might find it is perfectly acceptable and get the floor back as solid as it needs to be.

 

[marchie]

would it be worth trying a DIY repair given that experience? maybe it won't be "burstner approved" but neither will it be £1700. You might find it is perfectly acceptable and get the floor back as solid as it needs to be.

Camper UK gave a specific warning NOT to try any repair or dismantling, because that would lose the Burstner contribution to the work [seems to be about £800], and i would prefer to be able to sell the Van [should I choose to do so] with the benefit of a Burstner approved repair, rather than a Marchie DIY special ['don't worry about the misdrilled hole in the floor; think of it as a second WC for those night time visits in half the time and half the distance ...']

Steve

 

[wildebus]

Camper UK gave a specific warning NOT to try any repair or dismantling, because that would lose the Burstner contribution to the work [seems to be about £800], and i would prefer to be able to sell the Van [should I choose to do so] with the benefit of a Burstner approved repair, rather than a Marchie DIY special ['don't worry about the misdrilled hole in the floor; think of it as a second WC for those night time visits in half the time and half the distance ...']

Steve

fair enough.
I wonder if anyone who decides not to have a repair and so no "proof" will have a motorhome worth many thousands less? And the "unlucky" ones who had no issues so have no repair will actually be the worst off??

 

[cheyenne]

I love this theory that UK vans are always built badly and German vans are perfect
Oft quoted, never realised.

hi. well that's what European van owners tell me about uk build but in my experience even right up to the £150,000 vans have problems so i take them with a pitch of salt . cheyenne

 

[marchie]

fair enough.
I wonder if anyone who decides not to have a repair and so no "proof" will have a motorhome worth many thousands less? And the "unlucky" ones who had no issues so have no repair will actually be the worst off??

I don't know, David. It's a personal decision, and you know me well enough by now to realise that I prefer to have peace of mind, and am content to pay the going rate. I'll have the proof of repair to answer any buyer's queries, but I accept that the Van's value will decrease steadily as she ages; I suspect that the proof of repair and the evidence of regular servicing/repairs will give some depreciation protection, but it more likely to lead to a quicker sale of what could be reasonably described as a 'nice old girl who has been looked after in her dotage', rather like her current owner [save in respect of gender!]

Steve

 

[cheyenne]

hi guys . one of our m/h's autotrail Dakota had water ingress in the floor under the french bed ( 6 MONTH OLD ) . Brownhill's was to take on the work even though we bought it from Simpson's of great yarmouth . they said it would be a big job but the wife didn't like the idea of having a m/h's ripped apart & has it happens this had just come ( see photo ) so we took the hit & we had her for 10 years BUT started to get water ingress at the back so she had to go hence the swift the thing we liked about the swift is 10 year water ingress guarantee & no wood framing at all they use framing called smart . cheyenne

 

[Tony B]

Charlotte McCracken at Camper UK explained the process during 2 telephone conversations and in each call, she referred to the removal of the lower floor. She said that the work involves 25-30 hours of work over 2-3 weeks [so she could confirm that the 2nd December booking would get the Van returned for collection before Xmas], and she did refer to the plywood sheeting use, although she referred to 'losing about 5mm of headroom', rather than a 6mm plywood sheet use! It would be odd for the Dealer to have staff telling customers about one set of procedures for the remedial work, when the same Dealer, at the same premises, then produces a video showing a much curtailed process. That's just inviting complaints and criticism!

It's possible that the video describes the general principles/main steps of the repair [a video of the glue setting would be less exciting than one of watching paint dry], Dan's video describes a small area of floor, whereas ours follows the pattern described by Charlotte of relatively quick spread of the delamination back into the bathroom area [and the spread began some 48 hours after we found the initial delamination]

Camper UK are working to Burstner's approved technical repair process, and, to some degree, it doesn't matter what is done, or the methodology, as long as; a] the repair provides a permanent solution; b] the repair certificate is proof of a proper repair to the approved specification; and c] the Van does not lose a shedload of value because of the original floor delamination

Comments on another Forum referred to Burstner making a '£1700 contribution towards the cost' demand as a non-negotiable requirement for Vans over 5 years old, so, irrespective of whether I am happy/unhappy with the Burstner Customer Service and technical work, my only recourse would be to take my custom elsewhere if I choose to sell the Van. 'If someone's got you by the short and curlies, wriggling is only going to increase the discomfort/pain' is a practical synopsis ...

Steve

I There,

Just had my floor repaired ( November 2023) on my 2017 Burstner Ixeo 680 G due to delamination and I have to say the repair carried out by Camper Uk is fantastic and I cannot tell its been repaired.

Obviously we were hugely disappointed that the floor started to delaminate whilst we were in France and disappointed that Burstner would not pay for the full repair as we were 4 months out of warranty, however, the service we had from camper Uk and the repair quality carried out was brilliant.

Tony B

 

[Peregrinator]

WOW that is a very good price.

 

[Peregrinator]

Sounds very involved!
Now this video may be of interest .... It is from Camper UK about how they fix Burstner floor delamination issues

This is only from one month ago and is a much less involved process than the one you describe as them proposing to do.
Are there different types of Burstner flooring with different areas and degrees of delamination? maybe different age vans have different floors and can be repaired in different ways?
Maybe this repair they found to be inadequate and had to go with a full floor replacement?

I think I would be inclined to ask a few questions regarding the approach in this video compared to the full floor replacement (the repair in the video would be significantly cheaper and quicker to do).

There are several types of delamination, one of them is just the covering, which is a kind of lino flooring, the other is the ply itself coming apart.