Charging Leisure Batteries via EV points.

[Trotter]

On YouTube today, Mel on Big Van, Small World, or ‘tother way around, has bought a bit of kit that enables him to charge his batteries from a Tesco EV point..
Anyone got a view on, the ethical, legal or practicalities of doing this? He’s buying the leccy, so no theft there. It gives an alternative chance to charge batteries over winter, when solar is not available.
Again, another recent YouTube video had warned us of the imminent loss of LPG. Since taken down, and replaced, by another, hopefully nonessential opinion.

 

[GMLS]

I can totally see the attraction of this approach to full timers like Mel particularly in the winter. He made it very clear the protocols and behaviours he was following and encouraged others to as well, particularly restricting use to out of peek times.If everyone (but a relatively small number of people in total) follows that approach I can't see there being too many issues.

 

[Admin]

Last year Bruce Lauderdale and I had a conversation where we discussed this same idea, and this led to months of research on the legalities and regulations around charging Motorhomes from EV points. By the end of December, we had designed the cable and the associated internal parts to make a 13A charging cable that met the required British Standards and requirements of the charger operators. In January, Bruce started making the cables, which are available on his website. The cable is called the Juicy Brucie EV cable, which is 10 metres long. You MUST NOT use your van's hookup cable to extend the charging cable. Hookup cables do not meet the same standards, and you will be in breach of the terms and conditions of use of the EV points.

You will soon see many YouTubers using Brucie's cable. You may have already seen Darran (the Urban Motorhome), Liam (Liam the Terrible) and John (Gadget John) posting about his cable.

Juicy Brucie EV-Cable — Bruce Lauderdale

www.juicybrucie.com

As Bruce is a member of Motorhomer, he is offering our members £15 off a cable. Discount code: MH15

Phil

 

[Bruce Lauderdale]

Last year Bruce Lauderdale and I had a conversation where we discussed this same idea, and this led to months of research on the legalities and regulations around charging Motorhomes from EV points. By the end of December, we had designed the cable and the associated internal parts to make a 13A charging cable that met the required British Standards and requirements of the charger operators. In January, Bruce started making the cables, which are available on his website. The cable is called the Juicy Brucie EV cable, which is 10 metres long. You MUST NOT use your van's hookup cable to extend the charging cable. Hookup cables do not meet the same standards, and you will be in breach of the terms and conditions of use of the EV points.

You will soon see many YouTubers using Brucie's cable. You may have already seen Darran (the Urban Motorhome), Liam (Liam the Terrible) and John (Gadget John) posting about his cable.

Juicy Brucie EV-Cable — Bruce Lauderdale

www.juicybrucie.com

As Bruce is a member of Motorhomer, he is offering our members £15 off a cable. Discount code: MH15

Phil

Thanks for the post Phil. If anyone has any questions, please post them and I will do my best to answer them.

 

[Bruce Lauderdale]

I can totally see the attraction of this approach to full timers like Mel particularly in the winter. He made it very clear the protocols and behaviours he was following and encouraged others to as well, particularly restricting use to out of peek times.If everyone (but a relatively small number of people in total) follows that approach I can't see there being too many issues.

Absolutely, parking a van in an EV bay could cause issues and lead to a potential parking fine, but adhere to the protocols and be polite to all EV users and we should be good.

 

[wildebus]

I saw Darran (Urban Motorhome) use the Juicy Brucie cable. Looked like it could be very handy

 

[wildebus]

Thanks for the post Phil. If anyone has any questions, please post them and I will do my best to answer them.

Hey Bruce. Neat bit of kit.
I have never used an Electric Charging point so no experience of use, the apps for them etc.
Got a question. I think the answer will (hopefully) be obvious, but will post anyway. Others may have a similar question....

Motorhome chargers will typically be a LOT smaller in capability than EV chargers (for example, my Multiplus has a 70A charger, so will pull under 4A AC from the EV Point). Is there a minimum cost that the EV Point will charge? e.g. Does it assume you are using at least say 10A, to pick a random number and charges accordingly? or is the charge per kWh drawn? Is there any minimum charge levied? if you just put in 2kWh for example, will it charge you for the exact amount drawn? Does it round the charging cost upto the nearest whole kW or is there partial kW charging?

 

[nabsim]

Thanks for the post Phil. If anyone has any questions, please post them and I will do my best to answer them.

Can you tell me which ev charger providers state they can be used for anything except charging an electric vehicle please, the providers I have checked say ev only?

 

[tonybvi]

That’s the very last thing us EV owners want. There are not enough charging points for EV‘s at present without having to wait for a campervan/motorhome to charge its leisure battery! I accept that most folk will use their common sense but there are plenty others who just couldn’t give a toss that they may be preventing an EV charging.

 

[DACS]

The Juicy Brucie cable appears to simply provide 230v to the motorhome's built-in charger which could easily take several hours to charge the battery. I can see this upsetting Ev users and personally I would not want to hang around in a car park that long either.

 

[mistericeman]

That’s the very last thing us EV owners want. There are not enough charging points for EV‘s at present without having to wait for a campervan/motorhome to charge its leisure battery! I accept that most folk will use their common sense but there are plenty others who just couldn’t give a toss that they may be preventing an EV charging.

Another group of none motorhome/camper van owners with pitchforks await ....

There is already enough back biting and moaning by large sections of the EV owners regarding availability of charging points ...
I'm afraid I can see motorhomes/camper vans only adding to anti feelings .

 

[Trotter]

That’s the very last thing us EV owners want. There are not enough charging points for EV‘s at present without having to wait for a campervan/motorhome to charge its leisure battery! I accept that most folk will use their common sense but there are plenty others who just couldn’t give a toss that they may be preventing an EV charging.

Another group of none motorhome/camper van owners with pitchforks await ....

There is already enough back biting and moaning by large sections of the EV owners regarding availability of charging points ...
I'm afraid I can see motorhomes/camper vans only adding to anti feelings .

A point to remember is the fact that it’s EV points at filling stations that are replacing LPG.
I’m not sure if I’d need to use the above, maybe if it becomes “admissible”, I’d possibly, use one in winter, instead of having to go onto a campsite, merely to charge batteries.
Then again, I’m not sure I’d worry over much about the sensibilities of EV owners.

Bruce and Admin, you kept that quiet

 

[tonybvi]

A point to remember is the fact that it’s EV points at filling stations that are replacing LPG.
I’m not sure if I’d need to use the above, maybe if it becomes “admissible”, I’d possibly, use one in winter, instead of having to go onto a campsite, merely to charge batteries.
Then again, I’m not sure I’d worry over much about the sensibilities of EV owners.

Bruce and Admin, you kept that quiet

And what if you are an EV owner who also loves motorhoming?
Charging a leisure battery from an EV charge point will simply antagonise another segment of the population and will create yet more antagonism against motorhomers, which we could well do without.

 

[Bruce Lauderdale]

Hey Bruce. Neat bit of kit.
I have never used an Electric Charging point so no experience of use, the apps for them etc.
Got a question. I think the answer will (hopefully) be obvious, but will post anyway. Others may have a similar question....

Motorhome chargers will typically be a LOT smaller in capability than EV chargers (for example, my Multiplus has a 70A charger, so will pull under 4A AC from the EV Point). Is there a minimum cost that the EV Point will charge? e.g. Does it assume you are using at least say 10A, to pick a random number and charges accordingly? or is the charge per kWh drawn? Is there any minimum charge levied? if you just put in 2kWh for example, will it charge you for the exact amount drawn? Does it round the charging cost upto the nearest whole kW or is there partial kW charging?

Thanks Wildebus, a lot of research went into it so I’m pretty proud of the kit.

Just like everything. Each supplier has its own charging rates and some charge 50p per hour plus the KW charge and that too is set by the supplier.

Now I have used Tesco chargers as they charge 28p per KW or part thereof, the cheapest I got charged was 2p. But in Scotland, I charged overnight and was charged £1.88 to a full charge.

I have 540AH, so that is around 7300KW, so the most I’ll ever be charged is £2.05

I have also found a place near Aldridge which is 4 hours of free parking and the charge points are free too.

It's pretty simple though, you download the app that the charge point uses, (Tesco uses PodPoint), and follow the instructions. The only reason I like using Tesco or Pod Point is that I don't want to have to top up credit on a number of various apps.

Using your example of the 70W Multiplus, you will be able to charge your batteries at roughly 1KW an hour, this actually means you still have 2KW free to run down the cable, so using an air-fryer, microwave, or kettle while charging is also possible. As the cable can do 13A at 240V so just over 3000W.

All I can suggest is to read the signs and familiarise yourself with the terms and conditions of the parking.

Best regards,
Bruce

 

[Bruce Lauderdale]

Can you tell me which ev charger providers state they can be used for anything except charging an electric vehicle please, the providers I have checked say ev only?

Hi Nabsim,

The words they use are something along the lines of, "Please use a cable supplier by your manufacturer for your vehicle." A user will need "A cable suitable for their vehicle, access to the app, and a top-up payment method." They never actually stipulate that it has to be an EV.

Now there are technical arguments about the motorhome being an EV, but I'm not going to get into that as it's just a potential for disagreements.

The only restriction I have discovered is that the bays are restricted to EVs only. This means we're definitely not allowed to park within the EV bays and this could attract a fine. However, most bays are sandwiched between two normal vehicle bays which we are usually allowed to use. That's why I have opted for a 10M cable rather than the initial prototype which was just 6M. It wasn't quite long enough to successfully park in most bays. However, since having the 10M cable, I have been able to park alongside the EV bays without issue.

Also, when I sell a cable I request that you disconnect your cable if all ports are being used and an EV user arrives for charging.

Best regards,
Bruce

 

[Bruce Lauderdale]

That’s the very last thing us EV owners want. There are not enough charging points for EV‘s at present without having to wait for a campervan/motorhome to charge its leisure battery! I accept that most folk will use their common sense but there are plenty others who just couldn’t give a toss that they may be preventing an EV charging.

Hi Tonybvi,

I do understand your concern. I do my very best to get people who buy the cable to agree to certain terms and make it clear the EV users always trump the motorhome or campervans.

I have suggested that before 10 am or after 4 pm is generally best as shops close and EV users go home. Since December when I first started using my cable, I have only ever encountered another EV user once. The rest of the time I have the charge points to myself.

It is a cable to use responsibly. We all have a place in the world.

Best regards,
Bruce

 

[tonybvi]

I’m very sorry but I think this is an ill thought out idea doomed to failure. Not only will it antagonise an increasingly large segment of our population but I foresee all charge point manufacturers developing software to prevent this happening (as Tesla already have).
However much you “ask” purchasers to leave an EV point if an EV turns up we all know this will not happen. How many wild camping spots have we lost (mainly in Scotland) because a lot of motorhomers just cannot behave responsibly, despite them being reminded time and time again.

 

[Bruce Lauderdale]

The Juicy Brucie cable appears to simply provide 230v to the motorhome's built-in charger which could easily take several hours to charge the battery. I can see this upsetting Ev users and personally I would not want to hang around in a car park that long either.

Hi DACS,
It’s not so much about the voltage but the amps. If you have a charger delivery ing 20A, then you’re 100% correct, it’s not very good as 3 hours in Tesco will only give you 60A into your batteries.

However, Multiplus users can get anything from 60A to 120A per hour. That means that in a 3-hour Tesco parking limit, you'd charge anything from 180A to 360A.

I have pointed out that the best times to make use of the EV chargers are before 10 am or after 4 pm on a Sunday as the bays are generally entirely vacant.

Kind regards,
Bruce

 

[Trotter]

Hi Tonybvi,

I do understand your concern. I do my very best to get people who buy the cable to agree to certain terms and make it clear the EV users always trump the motorhome or campervans.

I have suggested that before 10 am or after 4 pm is generally best as shops close and EV users go home. Since December when I first started using my cable, I have only ever encountered another EV user once. The rest of the time I have the charge points to myself.

It is a cable to use responsibly. We all have a place in the world.

Best regards,
Bruce

A concise answer to a theoretical concern.
Well done Bruce.
Regards Dave

 

[wildebus]

Thanks Wildebus, a lot of research went into it so I’m pretty proud of the kit.

Just like everything. Each supplier has its own charging rates and some charge 50p per hour plus the KW charge and that too is set by the supplier.

Now I have used Tesco chargers as they charge 28p per KW or part thereof, the cheapest I got charged was 2p. But in Scotland, I charged overnight and was charged £1.88 to a full charge.

I have 540AH, so that is around 7300KW, so the most I’ll ever be charged is £2.05

I have also found a place near Aldridge which is 4 hours of free parking and the charge points are free too.

It's pretty simple though, you download the app that the charge point uses, (Tesco uses PodPoint), and follow the instructions. The only reason I like using Tesco or Pod Point is that I don't want to have to top up credit on a number of various apps.

Using your example of the 70A Multiplus, you will be able to charge your batteries at roughly 1KW an hour, this actually means you still have 2KW free to run down the cable, so using an air-fryer, microwave, or kettle while charging is also possible. As the cable can do 13A at 240V so just over 3000W.

All I can suggest is to read the signs and familiarise yourself with the terms and conditions of the parking.

Best regards,
Bruce

You have predicted some of the thinking behind my question depending on what the answer was
If you are charging and are paying not just for the current but the time (like your 50p/Hr example), it could well make sense to make the most of the time spent charging to maximize the value, such as making your dinner with electric appliances or maybe heating your water with the electric element using the 'spare' capacity of the charge point?

I have this vague recollection that public EV points in Scotland are free? maybe that was just a temporary thing? (as said, not an EV driver so not something I have taken a massive interest in).

But once the cable is bought and paid for, using an EV point (obviously at a non-obtrusive time to not inconvenience EV drivers) would seem to be a very good way to recharge batteries when the alternative might be to have to book into a campsite. In fact, even if you intend to go to a campsite anyway, charging via EV off-site with your cable and then selecting a Non-EHU pitch could still be a notable saving.