How dangerous is this!!

Millie Master said:
This has to be amongst the most dangerous items I have seen being sold on the internet and supposedly by what is quite a well respected company!

https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/10kg-24-5...CwfmfAPHm9aITeBeg6iRk0OaBEI-2EDxoClSEQAvD_BwE

This is a lightweight cylinder WITH NO safety 80% capacity restriction that they advertise as being not refillable. Who in their right mind would buy such a hair brained item?
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What is the issue? why does a NON-Refillable Bottle need a device to limit capacity when filling? Do other NON-Refillable bottles have them?
 
wildebus said:
What is the issue? why does a NON-Refillable Bottle need a device to limit capacity when filling? Do other NON-Refillable bottles have them?
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I don't know if there is any law covering the sale of refillable gas bottles that are not fitted with the all important with the all important automatic OPD valve (Overfill Protection Device) which stops refilling pump automatically when the gas level reaches 80%, but if there isn't there should be.

The problem is that if you went along to a refilling point with this cylinder and were able to connect it, then, unless you happened to know the exact amount of gas needed to top it up to the safe limit 80% of total capacity, it would fill right up to the top. The reason why this is exceptionally dangerous is that when the cylinder is then re-connected to the regulator and the valve is opened, then liquid LPG will come out of the over-filled cylinder and onwards to the gas appliances in your van whereas of course it should be only gas that comes out of the cylinder.

All other commercially available NON-Refillable cylinders from the likes of Calor/BP etc. etc. are only ever refilled at a safe refilling point where the filling devices have a built in OPD device in their filling nozzles.

Myself, I have refilled both medium and large LPG Propane cylinders, but only when I have known (1) they are absolutely empty and (2) for each size, I have been able to calculate exactly what the 80% content of each bottle, without this kind of knowledge it is foolhardy an dangerous to the extreme, to ever refill any cylinder that isn't fitted with an OPD device.
 
Millie Master said:
I don't know if there is any law covering the sale of refillable gas bottles that are not fitted with the all important with the all important automatic OPD valve (Overfill Protection Device) which stops refilling pump automatically when the gas level reaches 80%, but if there isn't there should be.

The problem is that if you went along to a refilling point with this cylinder and were able to connect it, then, unless you happened to know the exact amount of gas needed to top it up to the safe limit 80% of total capacity, it would fill right up to the top. The reason why this is exceptionally dangerous is that when the cylinder is then re-connected to the regulator and the valve is opened, then liquid LPG will come out of the over-filled cylinder and onwards to the gas appliances in your van whereas of course it should be only gas that comes out of the cylinder.

All other commercially available NON-Refillable cylinders from the likes of Calor/BP etc. etc. are only ever refilled at a safe refilling point where the filling devices have a built in OPD device in their filling nozzles.

Myself, I have refilled both medium and large LPG Propane cylinders, but only when I have known (1) they are absolutely empty and (2) for each size, I have been able to calculate exactly what the 80% content of each bottle, without this kind of knowledge it is foolhardy an dangerous to the extreme, to ever refill any cylinder that isn't fitted with an OPD device.
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Apart from the fact that for a few pounds on ebay etc you can buy a screw in fitting to be able to refill calor etc bottles at a lpg fill pump if you could get away with using it....

The bottles listed above are clearly labelled (at purchase) to be none refillable....

Its frankly a bit of a minefield trying to protect folks against themselves at times.
 
Millie Master said:
I don't know if there is any law covering the sale of refillable gas bottles that are not fitted with the all important with the all important automatic OPD valve (Overfill Protection Device) which stops refilling pump automatically when the gas level reaches 80%, but if there isn't there should be.

The problem is that if you went along to a refilling point with this cylinder and were able to connect it, then, unless you happened to know the exact amount of gas needed to top it up to the safe limit 80% of total capacity, it would fill right up to the top. The reason why this is exceptionally dangerous is that when the cylinder is then re-connected to the regulator and the valve is opened, then liquid LPG will come out of the over-filled cylinder and onwards to the gas appliances in your van whereas of course it should be only gas that comes out of the cylinder.

All other commercially available NON-Refillable cylinders from the likes of Calor/BP etc. etc. are only ever refilled at a safe refilling point where the filling devices have a built in OPD device in their filling nozzles.

Myself, I have refilled both medium and large LPG Propane cylinders, but only when I have known (1) they are absolutely empty and (2) for each size, I have been able to calculate exactly what the 80% content of each bottle, without this kind of knowledge it is foolhardy an dangerous to the extreme, to ever refill any cylinder that isn't fitted with an OPD device.
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It is VERY CLEARLY sold as NON-REFILLABLE. so there is NO REASON why it should have protection agains over-refilling is there!

you can't legislate against stupidity.
 
wildebus said:
It is VERY CLEARLY sold as NON-REFILLABLE. so there is NO REASON why it should have protection agains over-refilling is there!

you can't legislate against stupidity.
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I agree that you can't legislate against stupidity.................. HOWEVER, although this cylinder is marketed as being non refillable, that important notice doesn't appear until quite some way down the advert, all be it in red!
My point here is this cylinder looks very much like the SafeFill cylinders (I have one) that are fitted with an OPD valve as is also the other cylinder the lpgshop market as highlighted by @Winks and I know there will be quite a few people who will buy these cylinders without giving a second thought for and about their safety purely because it is so much cheaper.

Other than this, why oh why would anyone with half an ounce of common sense buy something that is, in relative terms, so much more expensive than the commercially available cylinders as sold by the likes of Calor?
 
wildebus said:
It is VERY CLEARLY sold as NON-REFILLABLE. so there is NO REASON why it should have protection agains over-refilling is there! .
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What is it For then. I wonder why any one would want a empty cylinder ?
 
witzend said:
What is it For then. I wonder why any one would want a empty cylinder ?
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A question to ask the seller.
I wouldn't want an empty OR a full cylinder personally.
 
***** said:
I am more concerned about the idiots who disregard maritime safety and drive onto ferries with gas fridges running and don't turn them and the gas off!
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Yes; agree. Especially when you, accompanied by staff, visit your van to check on your dog & find petrol leaking from a lawn mower on the car +trailer parked next to you & literally within inches of my fridge vents. Never seen ferry staff move so fast.
 
Probably less dangerous than a steel one it is fitted with pressure relief valve is far safer in a van fire than steel one and is transparent so you can see how much gas is in it.
I know fools who refill steel ones and theirs no substitute for stupid they will still fill them.
bill
 
Millie Master said:
This has to be amongst the most dangerous items I have seen being sold on the internet and supposedly by what is quite a well respected company!

https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/10kg-24-5...CwfmfAPHm9aITeBeg6iRk0OaBEI-2EDxoClSEQAvD_BwE

This is a lightweight cylinder WITH NO safety 80% capacity restriction that they advertise as being not refillable. Who in their right mind would buy such a hair brained item?
Click to expand...
And ? Make sure the cylinder is completely empty, find out the capacity of the cylinder, so 2 litres of Autogas weigh 1 Kilo, so a 6 KG cylinder will take 12 litres of Autogas, that will fill it to 80% capacity quite safely, easy peasy, its not illegal to do this, no laws against filling up empty cylinders, so what the problem,Ihave been doing this for years
 
And ? Make sure the cylinder is completely empty, find out the capacity of the cylinder, so 2 litres of Autogas weigh 1 Kilo, so a 6 KG cylinder will take 12 litres of Autogas, that will fill it to 80% capacity quite safely, easy peasy, its not illegal to do this, no laws against filling up empty cylinders, so what the problem, I have been doing this for years .
 
glesgaman said:
And ? Make sure the cylinder is completely empty, find out the capacity of the cylinder, so 2 litres of Autogas weigh 1 Kilo, so a 6 KG cylinder will take 12 litres of Autogas, that will fill it to 80% capacity quite safely, easy peasy, its not illegal to do this, no laws against filling up empty cylinders, so what the problem, I have been doing this for years .
Click to expand...

I used to live in a cottage that was fitted with an LPG heating system and a gas fired range, but there was no room to fit a very large LPG tank so we were forced to use Calors large 47kg cylinders about which we soon learned we were being stitched up by the replacement prices being charged!
So, and it is hardly rocket science to do so, when the cylinder was totally empty, I calculated the total capacity of the cylinder and then worked out the 80% figure.
At the time I had a LR Defender van and fitted a Gasit refilling point into the outside panel along with a secure frame inside the van to securely hold these large and 'B' heavy cylinders. I was then able to go to the local LPG filling station and refill the tank (carefully watching the gauge) until the 80% figure had been reached. Over the years, this saved me a veritable fortune.

But to do such a thing with a tank (without an automatic 80% cutout) fitted to a caravan or motorhome would be more than a bit risky unless you were able to guarantee being able to completely empty the cylinder.
 
There may be one or two on here who know what they are doing when filling a non refillable cylinder but my fear is that many purchasers of such a cylinder would have no idea of the risks of overfilling. Pressure relief is a different matter from overfilling. The pressure in the cylinder is created by the lpg itself and is the same whether the bottle is 50% 80% or 90% filled. A pressure relief valve may relieve over pressure caused by the filling pump but I can’t see how it would do anything about overfilling beyond the safe 80% level. One of the risks of overfilling is, I understand, that gas in liquid rather than gaseous form can get into the pipes and destroy the regulator. That will easiy take care of any saving made by buying a cheap bottle and using it for the wrong purpose.
 
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