Just When You Think You've Done Everything

got to agree with trev i last used the hessian wrap sort of lagging as an apprentice 55 years ago it. was first replaced with a thin foam rubber sleeve and now of course thick polystyrene, although compression fittings act like a fuse & pop before causing more serious damage to the pipework thats no consolation to the poor soul making good , unless remedial work is done it will just go next time temp drops the heating may be on to prevent it this year but what about next , insurance frequently refuse a claim on repeat faults !
 
rugbyken said:
got to agree with trev i last used the hessian wrap sort of lagging as an apprentice 55 years ago it. was first replaced with a thin foam rubber sleeve and now of course thick polystyrene, although compression fittings act like a fuse & pop before causing more serious damage to the pipework thats no consolation to the poor soul making good , unless remedial work is done it will just go next time temp drops the heating may be on to prevent it this year but what about next , insurance frequently refuse a claim on repeat faults !
Click to expand...
Thanks, Ken. the loft area is a myriad of redundant pipes [including the original feed from the 1850s 'publicly funded Well for the Townspeople of Burntisland' as the Monument records!. Re the insurance claim; the photos will go to the insurers who will know that the repair was made by their appointed contractors, so, if it fails, it's their fault and a repeat claim WILL be submitted and legal action taken as necessary

I plan to ask our Heating Engineer after Xmas to check the pipework, remove the redundant stuff and our disconnected Tank, before splitting the current joint supply into 2 separate mains supplies. The work will also involve fitting any extra stop cocks and insulating the remaining 'live' pipes, so that I have a discrete, functional system

I have posted previously about the joys of on street parking on a main road. Yesterday afternoon, there were 4 Plumbers Vans within about 50m of our Flat, some double parked, and Plumbers running along the street trying to find their House/Flat to repair. This shows that at the moment, I have little choice but to accept the repair, and to have the longer term work carried out when Plumbers are working under normal conditions. I rang 3 separate Emergency Call Out services last week when the leak occurred. Their adverts promise 30/60/90 minute response times respectively; firstly, they are all feeding into the same Call Centre; secondly the timescale for a Call Out has been revised to '3rd January at the earliest'

Steve
 
Steve, I use a fair bit of 15 & 22 mm copper pipe at work, over the years I have found quality of pipe inferior with wall thickness very thin these days. I would not have faith using it in my home, even though pipe well lagged.

At home I use HEP2O, easier and quick to use, especially if long pipe runs are required, less joins to deal with.
 
runnach said:
Steve, I use a fair bit of 15 & 22 mm copper pipe at work, over the years I have found quality of pipe inferior with wall thickness very thin these days. I would not have faith using it my home, even though pipe well lagged.

At home I use HEP2O, easier and quick to use, especially if long pipe runs are required, less joins to deal with.
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I think the lagging quality/absence/current state would be the 'wear & tear/maintenance' criterion applied by the Insurers. The 'bare pipe' photos before and after repair are taken with the lagging removed so that the Plumber's employers will get paid for a valid repair; 'Follow the money'! The repair also puts us back where we were prior to the burst, and insurers are hell bent on keeping Claims Costs down by ensuring that the repair does not put the policyholder in a better position than they were pre-claim

We will definitely be tidying up the pipework, if only to avoid turning off stop cocks that are connected to pipework of an earlier era [probably prior to the house being carved up [and I use the term advisedly ...] into the 2 flats], and which are now gathering only dust. Splitting the Mains supply will give us more control, and if we upgrade the insulation as part of the work, then that is a wise step. For clarity, the original pipework changes made when the house was split into flats some 65 years ago would have been compliant with Building Regs at the time, and. of course, the Insurers were a lot more relaxed about paying claims in those days!

Steve
 
We renovated a house back in 1984. I was told that as the price of copper was so high, pipes were being made thinner and poorer quality. Sure enough 20 years later exposed pipes in the hot press had minute weeps, and green copper stains all over.
Moved to bungalow in Newcastle Co. Down about 7 years ago. The town sits at the foot of the Granite mountain range called ‘The Mourne mountains’ (which sweep down to the sea). The pipes here are renowned for corroding despite the purity of the water. In fact the locals refer to it as the Newcastle disease. Renovated the bungalow with plastic pipes for 99% of the water and heating systems.
Also insulated the roof to high degree, cavity wall insulation, and 4Kw of solar panels. The panels have (until now) paid me more back than the cost of our electric each year. A timely downsize, I would hate to be paying the bills on our previous old solid wall large house.

Davy
 
Hearing these stories of burst pipes make me think there could be a fairly simple way to detect bursts and cut the water? Motorised valve on the incoming supply and if water flow exceeds a certain level, the valve shuts off.
Similar principle to an electrical Breaker in a consumer unit with over-current trip.
 
Just when I thought everything was sorted until I could get the pipework tidied up after Xmas, I got an email from the upstairs flat owner, 'My insurers say your damage is nothing to do with them and tney are refusing to meet the costs. You'll have to contact your own insurers'!!! Suspect that his insurers have declined his claim ...

My reply, minus the expletives, was to remind the upstairs flat owner that, at the time of the flood, I was sitting in my lounge with the heating from a newly serviced boiler switched on, and the fault lay with his Water Tank and his Scottish Gas condemned Boiler being out of commission. I said that no fault lay with me, and I would not end up out of pocket financially, so if we ended up in Court, I would be happy to instruct solicitors to recover all costs, including policy excesses and loss of NCB. Bloody annoyed that I have lost a week when I could have asked my insurers to organise contractors. Loss Adjusters et al

I spent most of the afternoon on the phone to my insurers, who have recorded a claim under my policy, and I may get a response from the Claims Team between Xmas and New Year, My insurers require the policy excess up front [£450 Water escape compulsory excess + £200 voluntary excess] so I asked the upstairs flat owner for this sum and he has paid it this evening. Will have to wait to see if my claim is accepted for the offence of living below a head of Richard. If any problems, it'll be straight over to the solicitors

Steve
 
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runnach said:
Steve, I use a fair bit of 15 & 22 mm copper pipe at work, over the years I have found quality of pipe inferior with wall thickness very thin these days. I would not have faith using it in my home, even though pipe well lagged.

At home I use HEP2O, easier and quick to use, especially if long pipe runs are required, less joins to deal with.
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Big prob with the plastic fantastic is the rubber o rings have a life of 10 years, also the plastic becomes brittle.
Saying that the pipe from front of the garage through the house under the floor to the kitchen before heading to the motor valves is 22mm plastic, but I used proper compression joints and not the push plastic units.
Also its not allowed to be within 3 mtrs of a boiler.
 
marchie said:
Just when I thought everything was sorted until I could get the pipework tidied up after Xmas, I got an email from the upstairs flat owner, 'My insurers say your damage is nothing to do with them and tney are refusing to meet the costs. You'll have to contact your own insurers'!!! Suspect that his insurers have declined his claim ...

My reply, minus the expletives, was to remind the upstairs flat owner that, at the time of the flood, I was sitting in my lounge with the heating from a newly serviced boiler switched on, and the fault lay with his Water Tank and his Scottish Gas condemned Boiler being out of commission. I said that no fault lay with me, and I would not end up out of pocket financially, so if we ended up in Court, I would be happy to instruct solicitors to recover all costs, including policy excesses and loss of NCB. Bloody annoyed that I have lost a week when I could have asked my insurers to organise contractors. Loss Adjusters et al

I spent most of the afternoon on the phone to my insurers, who have recorded a claim under my policy, and I may get a response from the Claims Team between Xmas and New Year, My insurers require the policy excess up front [£450 Water escape compulsory excess + £200 voluntary excess] so I asked the upstairs flat owner for this sum and he has paid it this evening. Will have to wait to see if my claim is accepted for the offence of living below a head of Richard. If any problems, it'll be straight over to the solicitors

Steve
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Small claims court, you can claim up to 5K, CAB will advise. Good luck.
 
trevskoda said:
Big prob with the plastic fantastic is the rubber o rings have a life of 10 years, also the plastic becomes brittle.
Saying that the pipe from front of the garage through the house under the floor to the kitchen before heading to the motor valves is 22mm plastic, but I used proper compression joints and not the push plastic units.
Also its not allowed to be within 3 mtrs of a boiler.
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Trev, I can understand plastic pipe becoming brittle if exposed to UV.

Regarding O-rings, I have pipework with push fit fittings in place for 15+ year, no issues.
 
wildebus said:
Hearing these stories of burst pipes make me think there could be a fairly simple way to detect bursts and cut the water? Motorised valve on the incoming supply and if water flow exceeds a certain level, the valve shuts off.
Similar principle to an electrical Breaker in a consumer unit with over-current trip.
Click to expand...
How would it be able to tell a leak from someone running a bath?
 
wildebus said:
Hearing these stories of burst pipes make me think there could be a fairly simple way to detect bursts and cut the water? Motorised valve on the incoming supply and if water flow exceeds a certain level, the valve shuts off.
Similar principle to an electrical Breaker in a consumer unit with over-current trip.
Click to expand...
If this option is practicable, affordable and doesn't involve ripping out pipes etc, David, I would be interested! [As would half the plumbers in Fife who have tear-arsing around over the last 7-10 days, reinstating water connections! There may be a business opportunity here! The reality is that the flooding problem will stop our Winter Sun trip for the 2nd year running, and our just 2 year old all wool carpet in the Dining Room is shrinking like buggery as the drying out process gathers pace! Just hoping that the carpet can be restretched, otherwise it's a four figure sum on what has become our insurance claim - grrr!

Steve
 
I've know idea if anyone makes anything like that, but I am sure it is technically possible.

One thing which does bug me (and this is a general comment, not aimed at anyone here) is how many people don't know where their stopcocks are.
I watched one of those Holiday Park camping programs recently and one of the static caravans had a leak and the park maintenance people seemed to take a couple of hours to work out where to turn the water off (surely all the statics they have will be the same?)
Also never turn the valve on fully as they can jam on - on all the way, then a half turn back :)
 
wildebus said:
I've know idea if anyone makes anything like that, but I am sure it is technically possible.

One thing which does bug me (and this is a general comment, not aimed at anyone here) is how many people don't know where their stopcocks are.
I watched one of those Holiday Park camping programs recently and one of the static caravans had a leak and the park maintenance people seemed to take a couple of hours to work out where to turn the water off (surely all the statics they have will be the same?)
Also never turn the valve on fully as they can jam on - on all the way, then a half turn back :)
Click to expand...
My stopcock valve is just inside our side door and easy to get at. I also have a toby key I made years ago if there is an issue with the stopcock. As in, isolating water from the street.

Always good to have a backup plan, especially where water is concerned.
 
runnach said:
My stopcock valve is just inside our side door and easy to get at. I also have a toby key I made years ago if there is an issue with the stopcock. As in, isolating water from the street.

Always good to have a backup plan, especially where water is concerned.
Click to expand...
Now he tells me ... :D. Before I nicked our mains feed pipe to the flat whilst ripping out damaged wood in preparation for the Dry Rot Phase 1 work to start, we had no stop cock in the street! The engineer from Scottish Water showed me the street map with quite a few gaps where the external stop cock was absent. In the ensuing 5 years, the stop cocks have been added in a piecemeal approach ...

The reinstated system in our flat has the requisite internal stop cocks and the external [street] stop cock that covers both flats

Steve
 
round here each house has a stop cock and it has a meter as part of it.
 
Although we have a stopcock just inside the house we recently has a leak between the street toby (stopcock) and our house stopcock. The only way the repair guys could find the toby in the road was by using a metal detector. They eventually found it on the verge under a few inches of road metal so it had to be dug out and raised to road level, which involved closing the road for half a day. I now know where it is and have a long toby key to reach the valve which is about 4 feet down.
 
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