Motorhome/Campervan office energy requirements and setup for working off-grid

[ksierra37]

I am planning to have in a near future a Motorhome or Campervan from where I will need to be able to work remotely. This can be in any season of the year, in the south of Europe or here in Scotland, thus the sun and wind availability will be different.

I am trying to figure out the requirements to be able to have a full working day from solar and/or wind energy, plus all the other necessities for living off-grid on it for weeks in a row.

I am a software developer, thus my setup consists of a laptop plus two monitors, thus I will need to have enough energy to power them for an entire working day, and also to power the fridge, the TV, charge the mobile devices, and for the occasional use of my wife laptop. We don't use microwave at home, therefore will not use them on the Motorhome, but we may want to use a kettle. While we don't use microwave we cook a lot, thus the hob and the oven will be used a lot, but they run only from gas, or am I mistaken?

I know that will need to have solar panels, wind turbine, backup generator and enough batteries to store the necessary energy, but I am not sure the best approach to come up with all the power I need to account for, and the necessary hardware(solar panels, wind turbine, batteries) setup to satisfy this power needs.

I will use leds in the lights for saving energy and I will use a diesel parking heater for that cold days, but not sure how I will do for the hot days, because the AC must be very energy hungry.

Is it best to use inverters to power the laptops and monitors or buy 12v power supplies for them?

I want to know if its' possible to survive off-grid for weeks without the need to go to a campsite to hook to the mains power, and without the need to make use of the backup generator, ideally I should start it only for maintenance purposes

For sure that I am missing stuff and may be saying some non sense, but I accepts all your feedback, bet it positive or negative

So, the more advice I can get, the better

 

[wildebus]

Lots of Batteries!

So you need power in all seasons? And you don't have the option of saying say "let's take the next two days off" as you are dictated by timescales and schedules?
Forgot Solar in the winter. That will give you enough for your lights hopefully if the array is big enough. Not a lot else though.
You don't know if there will be enough wind to provide a decent charge. And again, you would need a big turbine, or it be so windy you would not want to be there in the first place!

A/C? forget using that on batteries unless you have a VERY BIG solar array to help replenish the Batteries.

Big battery bank, made up of lithium batteries to give you a fast charge capability, coupled with a high power charger to deliver the current they will take and a generator to make the power to drive the charger (and maybe the AC at the time? Size generator for both purposes).

 

[jagmanx]

On the assumption that you need power to earn your living. (Which seems to be the case!)
Do not stint on items.
A generator yes maybe a 2kw - although Honda expensive likely to be best !
Lithium batteries yes and suitable charging off genny.
Solar yes but maybe not go oveboard on this.
It maybe your investment can be claimed against tax over a 4 year period. Perhaps check that out soon as it may help with getting better kit.
Same goes for refillable lpg

 

[ksierra37]

So you need power in all seasons? And you don't have the option of saying say "let's take the next two days off" as you are dictated by timescales and schedules?

I need power in all seasons because I want to be able to go off-grid at any time of the year. I will not live full-time in the motorhome, but I may want to travel for some weeks without putting holidays, thus I will need to work remotely and have the power to do it from Monday to Friday, because during weekends I will have that two days off

Forgot Solar in the winter. That will give you enough for your lights hopefully if the array is big enough. Not a lot else though.

It seems that by your observation that in the winter will be more difficult to source green power then I expected from solar panels.

You don't know if there will be enough wind to provide a decent charge. And again, you would need a big turbine, or it be so windy you would not want to be there in the first place!

The wind turbine was more in the sense of taking advantage of the normal wind conditions, because if is to windy I will drive somewhere else

So you think is not worth it for normal wind conditions we have in Scotland?

Big battery bank, made up of lithium batteries to give you a fast charge capability,

So lithium batteries are faster to charge then others. Good to know.

coupled with a high power charger to deliver the current they will take and a generator to make the power to drive the charger

I was not aware that I would need a generator to make the power to drive the charger. I really have a lot to learn.

(and maybe the AC at the time? Size generator for both purposes).

If I build may own campervan I will use the best isolation possible, thus maybe I can cope without an A/C, but I need to consider it, thus I will need to fit a generator that can power it in case solar energy is not enough.

Lots of Batteries!

Doesn't come has a suprise

A/C? forget using that on batteries unless you have a VERY BIG solar array to help replenish the Batteries.

Lots of Batteries!Roughly, how big would it need to be, and how many batteries to go with it?

 

[ksierra37]

On the assumption that you need power to earn your living. (Which seems to be the case!)
Do not stint on items.

I am not planning in buy cheap stuff, because I will be spending money twice, thus I will be buy from reputable brands, but I may not be able to go to the top end model, because money is not growing in my backyard

A generator yes maybe a 2kw - although Honda expensive likely to be best !

I have seen that Honda seems to be always the recommend brand, and once they are Japanese the quality must be good, at least they are in cars

Lithium batteries yes and suitable charging off genny.

By genny I guess you mean generator

I was hoping that I could go with gel batteries, but you are the second person to recommend Lithium, thus I need to plan for more budget.

It maybe your investment can be claimed against tax over a 4 year period. Perhaps check that out soon as it may help with getting better kit.

I am working as full-time employee, not as a contractor. Can I still claim?

Same goes for refillable lpg

Can you expand a little more. Having a good brand and at least 2 bottles. Is what you mean?

 

[jagmanx]

I am not planning in buy cheap stuff, because I will be spending money twice, thus I will be buy from reputable brands, but I may not be able to go to the top end model, because money is not growing in my backyard


I have seen that Honda seems to be always the recommend brand, and once they are Japanese the quality must be good, at least they are in cars


By genny I guess you mean generator

I was hoping that I could go with gel batteries, but you are the second person to recommend Lithium, thus I need to plan for more budget.


I am working as full-time employee, not as a contractor. Can I still claim?


Can you expand a little more. Having a good brand and at least 2 bottles. Is what you mean?

I thought you may be self-employed.
As you are full time I think my tax idea is nogo.
Re-fillable gas just as it is so much cheaper.
Yes genny = generator.
If you did not rely on power to work..I believe there are cheaper very good generators available. Indeed with say 2x lithium you might save a few 100£ with another good generator..I certainly would.

 

[Minisorella]

Can you expand a little more. Having a good brand and at least 2 bottles. Is what you mean?

To clarify re LPG, the idea is to install bottles that can be refilled from an LPG pump at garages, rather than the ones you have to swap out. An external fill point is the best bet to avoid garages thinking you're trying to refill a normal bottle, which is illegal I believe. Refillable is about a third of the cost of replacements, even if the system costs a little more to install. You'll see 2 options if you Google Gaslow and Gasit systems. If you join as a full member here, I think you'll be able get a discount on Gasit equipment... actually there are member discounts on all sorts of things you might need, including batteries and insurance. If you join before the end of this year, you'll also get memberhip to Wildcamping.co.uk and its database of thousands of overnight stops, toilets and water sources.

Another thing to throw into the mix is that you'll need somewhere to empty your toilet cassette and waste water tank, plus take on fresh water. These are easy to find at aires on the Continent but for the UK it would be worth factoring-in a stay on a small campsite once or twice a week, depending how long your services last you. Some sites also have laundry facilities when you need them... and of course you can plug in to fully charge everything up. One of the biggest problems the uninformed public have with motorhomes/campers is that they genuinely believe that we dump our toilet (black) waste in inappropriate places! For 99.99% of us, this is just not true... in fact, we're very conscious of leaving places even better than we found them by picking up rubbish left by others. There may well be the odd anti-social numpty who'll try to get away with dumping black waste irresponsibly but they give the rest of the motorhome community a bad name and make the law-abiding majority of us unwelcome in so many places.

Anyhoo, welcome to our lovely forum and hope all your plans work out really well. Enjoy!

 

[Monkeybrand]

Efoy?

 

[wildebus]

I need power in all seasons because I want to be able to go off-grid at any time of the year. I will not live full-time in the motorhome, but I may want to travel for some weeks without putting holidays, thus I will need to work remotely and have the power to do it from Monday to Friday, because during weekends I will have that two days off


It seems that by your observation that in the winter will be more difficult to source green power then I expected from solar panels.


The wind turbine was more in the sense of taking advantage of the normal wind conditions, because if is to windy I will drive somewhere else

So you think is not worth it for normal wind conditions we have in Scotland?


So lithium batteries are faster to charge then others. Good to know.


I was not aware that I would need a generator to make the power to drive the charger. I really have a lot to learn.


If I build may own campervan I will use the best isolation possible, thus maybe I can cope without an A/C, but I need to consider it, thus I will need to fit a generator that can power it in case solar energy is not enough.


Doesn't come has a suprise


Lots of Batteries!Roughly, how big would it need to be, and how many batteries to go with it?

I would say your first steps should be to make a note of the things you know about - Laptops, Monitors x 2, etc, Heater, etc.
List them and build a spreadsheet of the Item; It's power use in Watts (use Watts, NOT Amps, at this stage); and how long you expect to use it for in a day. That will give you your power consumption
e.g.
Laptop - 80W - 8 hours = 640Wh /Day
Monitor 1 - 40W - 8 hours = 320Wh /Day
Monitor 2 - 60W - 4 hours = 240Wh / Day (you only need the 2nd screen half the time maybe? think of these details when doing the numbers and be realistic about it. Maybe you have a 12 hour working day in effect? when working remotely in some jobs it can end up being way longer than the 9-5 routine)

and carry on with Lights, TV, etc, etc.
On the above numbers, your "Work Day" side will use 640Wh + 320Wh + 240Wh in a day = 1200Wh. Batteries are rated in Ah generally, not Wh, so to get the Ah, divide the Wh by Voltage (nominally 12V). So 1200Wh / 12V = 100Ah
The typical Motorhome battery is actually around 100Ah, so just for your working day, you will suck a single battery dry.
Fit 200Ah of Battery and you would be down to 50% of the capacity.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Lead Acid Batteries should not be taken below 50%, so IF you fitted Lead Acid Batteries, your working day will have exhausted 200Ah of Battery down to the safe level.
You still need power for the evening for a bit of TV, lights, heater pump/fan/what have you, of course. You probably also want backup capacity for the next working day if you are not able to recharge much, so probably want to double up on capacity as a minimum.
You are now looking at 400Ah of Lead Acid or 200Ah of Lithium just to ensure you can earn your daily bread.

Do that spreadsheet and that will help you size the battery bank.
Air Con on batteries? TBH, just forget that idea. If you really are keen on the idea, stick A/C in the spreadsheet and see what Wh/Day you end up with.


Wind Turbines really only start to work at higher wind speeds of say 25MPH or more. Now I fancied the idea of a Wind Turbine as I live in a pretty windy area but when I look at the data from my weather station I see that when you think it is windy the actual regular wind speed is not close to optimum for a wind turbine - and when it is enough to generate a worthwhile charge, you are getting bounced around in your van so much you would not want to be it!

Solar in Winter is a waste of time. Noise level. Right now it is a bright sunny day here in Scotland. I have 460W of Solar on the roof and an hour ago I was putting in a whopping 17W into the battery. In summer it is a different story entirely, but in winter, just forget solar.

 

[jagmanx]

Not that we use MoHo in winter
I agree with @wildebus 2x 100ah lithium. Plus a suitable generator and 120watt or more if you have room solar.
For me wind power or Efoy are a waste of money and no real advantage !

 

[rugbyken]

i’m a plumber not a sparks i know enough about electtrickery to ask david ( wildebus ) or phil ( geeky philip) to help me still don’t understand most of what they’re saying but certain things oft repeated stick, eg standard leisure batteries weigh a lot last approx 5 years & you can only use 1/2 their stated ampage usefully, the lithium are possibly triple the price relatively light and last approx 25 years but their biggest plus is that the ampage is usable to below 10% about the only minus they have apart from cost is that they won’t accept charge below i think 5 degrees,
generators the quietest ones are the lpg ones but the quietest of all is the E Foy but again expensive , with an extensive solar array & controllers battery monitors etc there is not a cheap option for your requirements, geeky phil uses the sort of power consumption your looking for & for similar purposes have a look on you tube his channel shows the set up that he has installed

 

[nabsim]

I don’t bother with monitors but laptops, iPads, iPhones and watches used, 2 MacBooks and a surface pro I charge via a 300w Bestek modified sine wave inverter, all other devices from 12v via USB. I have a 22” 12v/240v tv, Amazon echo, home broadband 4G router all off 12v. I cook with gas and heat with diesel
I have 300W solar on the roof, (fixed not tilting) 2x100ah Lifepo4 battery bank, I have to run my generator every second or third day to keep battery’s topped up apart from good summer sun.
Hope that helps

 

[nabsim]

i’m a plumber not a sparks i know enough about electtrickery to ask david ( wildebus ) or phil ( geeky philip) to help me still don’t understand most of what they’re saying but certain things oft repeated stick, eg standard leisure batteries weigh a lot last approx 5 years & you can only use 1/2 their stated ampage usefully, the lithium are possibly triple the price relatively light and last approx 25 years but their biggest plus is that the ampage is usable to below 10% about the only minus they have apart from cost is that they won’t accept charge below i think 5 degrees,
generators the quietest ones are the lpg ones but the quietest of all is the E Foy but again expensive , with an extensive solar array & controllers battery monitors etc there is not a cheap option for your requirements, geeky phil uses the sort of power consumption your looking for & for similar purposes have a look on you tube his channel shows the set up that he has installed

The op wants to stay off grid for weeks at a time, Phils setup won’t allow that in winter Ken although it will certainly extend the harvesting period

 

[rugbyken]

get that mate just trying to give the O P options

 

[jagmanx]

The various usage calculations both suggested and as possible models are good.
If the OP is rrunning at that sort of usage in winter then a generator is essential.
Will it be needed every day to bring the battery bank up to 100% and for how long.
will it be "overworked" ?
Just estimating 2x 100AH Lithium maybe needing 150AH to topup how long will that take
Will a 1KW generator do the job.
So if 100AH needed charging @ 20 amps = 5hours
The Honda Eu22i appears to give a max usage time of 3.5 hours !!!
What would be the fuel consumtion running at sat 1.3kW ???
And it costs well over £1000
This does not take any inefficiencies into account
20 amps at 14.5 V (charging voltage ?) =300watts ? so OK
( is this correct ?) if all sytems running as well more load on the generator uup towards a further 1kW
The OP could monitor his usage at home by taking meter readings say at 8am and 8pm
Obvious discrepencies being CH pump usage Washing machine Bigger volme of house.
Many kettles work at high ampage so use GAS

Housekeeping..This will take time out of the workday.
Albeit minor time for toilet and waste if on a site
More time in having to travel even short distances.
Then gas will need to be bought more often and food etc Petrol for the generator
Washing and drying clothes in winter yes a launderette but time.
Most of this time will likely take place in daylight/working hours.
Maintaining the generator time/usage

In a house this is all easy but less so in a motorhome
What are the OPs work commitments re telephone calls /video conferencing etc.
The employer MAY be unhappy with too many "unavailable now" windows

 

[jagmanx]

Another course of action.
Forget Solar and extra batteries and portable generator.
Get an underslung or installed generator. I would say diesel to run it off the main diesel tank.
Petrol or LPG possible (LPG not easy to find ?)

Thus a 1 hit solution which does everything.
OK £4000 plus initial outlay..BUT it will work and "keep the OP in work"
No fuss no bother. Quiet..well insulated.
Fit and forget remotely/automatically controlled..No getting out in the pouring rain to setup/topup the portable genny (and danger!)

Save on Honda portable generator £1500 plus inconvenience
Save on solar. but maybe get a 120Watt panel
Save on lithium and associated costs (only 1 battery need maybe saving £1000 on 2nd battery and controllers etc
OP could use a kettle Iron etc
More importantly all his "work IT" fully catered for.
Also electrical power for either gas or diesel heating but a small (1000watt) leccy fan heater would be handy
No need for multiple "12v adapters" for monitors or TV or laptop
Small electric fan heater also possible to save a bit on LPG usage
Induction cooker
OK extra fuel costs with diesel or Petrol (both more than LPG) BUT 100% reliability to off grid 100%.

Still the same housekeeping issues !

Given the apparent high usage profile I see this as viable financially (just) but with the huge adavantage of reliability convenience and 24 hours of plenty of power.

 

[jagmanx]

More ....
Should you choose to investigate the built in generator solution

You COULD dispense with LPG and retrive the gas locker space
A microwave becomes available
If you use diesel it could be supplied by your existing fuel tank (ignoring useless mpg calculations.
Or the gas locker for a petrol tank.
An electic CH system/water heater
A te in bottle LPG system costs maybe £500
@wildebus has gone down the all electric route I am sure he will have some useful thoughts

As you may have worked out I would bgo for Diesel if it can be done then you have a 1 fuel only solution.
Getting LPG in UK seems increasing difficult !

IF ( no way) i were to design a vehicle now
LPG No
Electric as I have suggested
Fridges/Freezers off 240V are much cheaper and more efficient !
Also you can run aircon with a suitable built in generator

We live very comfortable with 1 Leisure battery and 1 x 120watt Solar
BUT only in the summer. I use the laptop a lot !
My thoughts plans are pure hyypothesis ! But take into account the helpful posts of many on this forum who "know"

 

[wildebus]

I think (Geeky) Phillips setup as an example would provide the power needs required for 2.5 Seasons and remain self-contained. Maybe 3 seasons if venturing to warmer climes in spring/autumn, but Winter I am sure you need some kind of external charging - be it a Generator or Hookup.
The Efoy mentioned before is a small fuel-cell power source that is very good and compact but is expensive to run.

It might be worth just working out how much this kind of setup is going to setup you back ....

Let's say the following:
400Ah of Lithium Batteries - £3,000
1,000W of Solar and a suitable controller - £1,500
Multiplus 12/3000/120 - Quality Inverter and Powerful Battery Charger - £1,300
Electrical monitoring system (expensive setup. you need to treat it right and make sure you are getting the best from it) - £500

Above adds up to £6,300.

You may be able to save some money on some items above, but I haven't included any heavy cabling, fitting out costs, professional installtion (or tools needed to be bought for DIY installation), etc. so swings and roundabouts on price, but throw in a Honda Generator and expect no change from around £7,500

Now what does this £7,500 get you? Essentially a mobile replacement for a 13A socket at home. Food for thought.



PS. That is not the whole fit out - you have things like B2B/Split Charger, etc, but the gear above is the "Supersize me" requirements to let you have your Mobile Office environment. If 'normal' MH holidaying, you'd have a different, much smaller setup.

 

[jagmanx]

I think (Geeky) Phillips setup as an example would provide the power needs required for 2.5 Seasons and remain self-contained. Maybe 3 seasons if venturing to warmer climes in spring/autumn, but Winter I am sure you need some kind of external charging - be it a Generator or Hookup.
The Efoy mentioned before is a small fuel-cell power source that is very good and compact but is expensive to run.

It might be worth just working out how much this kind of setup is going to setup you back ....

Let's say the following:
400Ah of Lithium Batteries - £3,000
1,000W of Solar and a suitable controller - £1,500
Multiplus 12/3000/120 - Quality Inverter and Powerful Battery Charger - £1,300
Electrical monitoring system (expensive setup. you need to treat it right and make sure you are getting the best from it) - £500

Above adds up to £6,300.

You may be able to save some money on some items above, but I haven't included any heavy cabling, fitting out costs, professional installtion (or tools needed to be bought for DIY installation), etc. so swings and roundabouts on price, but throw in a Honda Generator and expect no change from around £7,500

Now what does this £7,500 get you? Essentially a mobile replacement for a 13A socket at home. Food for thought.

Thanks
I note the cost which is more than I might have expected..but not susprised (4x batteries and as you say wiring monitoring etc)
Catering for winter is difficult !
hence my suggestion for an onboard Generator maybe £4.500 no extra batteries maybe 120Watt solar
Yes fuelcosts on top but a portable genny or Efoy has fuel costs..The latter extortionate and £2500 or so AND not that powerful
With onboard generator you get 100% independence and reliability and quiet
If LPG is reliably sourced that is an option for a little more outlay but no need ffor a petrol tank !
However such an expense on whatever solution is thought best is really suited to those "Full-timing"

 

[wildebus]

Thanks
I note the cost which is more than I might have expected..but not susprised (4x batteries and as you say wiring monitoring etc)
Catering for winter is difficult !
hence my suggestion for an onboard Generator maybe £4.500 no extra batteries maybe 120Watt solar
Yes fuelcosts on top but a portable genny or Efoy has fuel costs..The latter extortionate and £2500 or so AND not that powerful
With onboard generator you get 100% independence and reliability and quiet
If LPG is reliably sourced that is an option for a little more outlay but no need ffor a petrol tank !
However such an expense on whatever solution is thought best is really suited to those "Full-timing"

Something that I don't understand - but I don't profess to know about Generators - is why apparently on-board generators are so much more expensive to run than portables?
I am basing that comment from quite a few Youtube videos I recall watching made by US RVers, where the owners have removed the on-board Generator (common fitment in many US RVs) and bought a portable Generator to use instead.
That seems very illogical on the face of it so there has got to be a real reason why so many have done that?