Replace air suspension with coils?

[zizajaun]

I have a non-standard tag-axle Citroen Relay 2006 2.8 diesel HDI 244, rated up to 5.4 tonnes but currently about 4-4.5t according to the previous owners. It used to be a mobile office for the police, and was subsequently converted.

The air bags are leaking and cracking, so I need to replace them, which will cost about a grand just for parts. But as they're non-standard, I can't even find out which ones to replace them with. 2 models come up on Autodoc, but I don't know what the difference is, or even that either of them is suitable for this weight/design, as the website assumes it's a standard Relay.

Is it possible/advisable to replace them with coil springs, which are cheaper and easier to find? They are only on the rear (both axles) so I'm not sure it would affect comfort, but maybe it would make it less stable, especially if the weight isn't balanced?

If I get coils, how do I decide which to use? There are dozens on Autodoc for this model, presumably rated for different weights etc.

This is the vehicle:

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[maingate]

From your photos, it looks more like an AlKo chassis with torsion bars instead of 'cart' springs. If that is correct then you seem snookered. You can fit air assist to an AlKo chassis but not coil springs (as far as I am aware).

 

[Scotia]

After fitting air assist i wonder why you would consider going backwards, I can't see how new bellows would cost you 1k. I fitted a complete system for less complete with compressor and it was not an ebay purchase from the far east.

 

[zizajaun]

From your photos, it looks more like an AlKo chassis with torsion bars instead of 'cart' springs. If that is correct then you seem snookered. You can fit air assist to an AlKo chassis but not coil springs (as far as I am aware).

Thanks. How can I confirm that? Does this picture help?

 

[zizajaun]

After fitting air assist i wonder why you would consider going backwards, I can't see how new bellows would cost you 1k. I fitted a complete system for less complete with compressor and it was not an ebay purchase from the far east.

Autodoc says £500 a pair for my van, but I'm not certain they are the right ones as it assumes I have a standard Relay, not tag-axle 5.4t https://www.autodoc.co.uk/fast/19225459

 

[The laird]

Looks like torsion bar rear beams which means no coil springs
torsion set up is in effect the springs there are various company's do air bags get on internet and seek

 

[mistericeman]

Don't forget to inform your insurance company IF you remove the bags and swap to coils ...

It's likely a material change and could affect your insurance in the event of a claim

 

[maingate]

The AlKo will have a tube running from one rear wheel to the opposite wheel. The spring torsion bars are contained inside the tube (that is why you never jack the vehicle up on those tubes). There will probably be grease nipples on the underside of the tubes just behind the wheels (although my last tag axle van had a 'sealed for life' system and no grease nipples).

Some photos here: https://www.bing.com/images/search?...qpvt=alko+motorhome+chassis&form=IGRE&first=1

The air systems for an AlKo chassis are available but they are generally a lot more expensive than the kits for the normal leaf spring type. The first thing I would do is get the m/home on a weighbridge and check the weight of the 2 rear axles. They are normally rated at 1500 Kg each. You might not need any air assistance if they are within this weight (they possibly needed them when the police used the vehicle). Both of my tag axle vans (same chassis as yours) were well within the weight limit. At 4 to 4.5 tons I am sure yo will be within tolerance and not need air assist. If you think the ride is not so good, place the vehice on level ground and using a tape measure, check for equal height from the ground to a point on the bodywork. The bad news is if one side has a broken torsion bar (ie: is lower), the repair is not cheap. If you find the grease nipples find the correct grease type and pump about 10 shots into each nipple. Good luck.

 

[Bear]

Possibly a email or call to Glide-Rite as they are doing my air suspension next month. As its an older Alko axle they are only a couple that can do. Very helpful folks I have to say.

 

[RichardHelen262]

They are only air assist I would take one off that way you can see exactly which ones you will need

 

[nabsim]

Do you know if the air was a requirement of the plated weight? My van had to have rear air assist when it was put up to 4.0t

 

[zizajaun]

Possibly a email or call to Glide-Rite as they are doing my air suspension next month. As its an older Alko axle they are only a couple that can do. Very helpful folks I have to say.

Thanks, just sent them a message. I am getting conflicting advice online so would be good for someone to take a look at it and confirm. Looks like they are near Liverpool though, which isn't convenient for me.

Do you know if the air was a requirement of the plated weight? My van had to have rear air assist when it was put up to 4.0t

It's only 3.5t on the log book. How would I check what's required?

 

[maingate]

It probably was a reqirement. My first tag axle was rated at 5 tons on the standard AlKo chassis. Above that weight might be a lot different.

 

[Bear]

Thanks, just sent them a message. I am getting conflicting advice online so would be good for someone to take a look at it and confirm. Looks like they are near Liverpool though, which isn't convenient for me.

It's only 3.5t on the log book. How would I check what's required?

I don't know where you are in the country, but David is very helpful and if you have added the photos he might be able to say more.

Good luck anyway.

 

[zizajaun]

I don't know where you are in the country, but David is very helpful and if you have added the photos he might be able to say more.

Good luck anyway.

I am in York, moving to Swansea next week, then to Oxford in October.

 

[CriftinsCampers]

@zizajaun
Did you just say it plated as 3500kg on the V5?
If so what is it plated at on the vehicles weight plate?

The info held by the DVLA and as stated on the V5 is the source of truth and I have over the past couple of years come across a few examples where something dodgy has been going on and vehicles have SVtech weight plates (stickers) on them giving the false impression they have been uplated but the paperwork was never sent to the DVLA by the vehicles owner (if it ever existed). So they are still plated at 3500kg.

If you have become the victim of one of these scams unfortunately you will find Steve at SVtech totally unhelpful he will probably point blank refuse to provide copies of the original paperwork (again if it ever existed) and you will have to go through the entire plating exercise again. I would then recommend Dee Thorne at Van weight engineering cheaper and far more proactive!

In the meantime if the V5 does say 3500kg they you really must get it weighed, if it weighs over 3500kg you can’t drive it until the V5 has been changed or you have gutted it to get it below and remain below 3500kg, and obviously just a reminder you need to have a C1 licence to drive anything plated over 3500kg.

Re your suspension I would 100% recommend you repair it as is, changing to springs will almost certainly require an engineers report for your insurance company

 

[zizajaun]

It is 3500 on the V5. Where do I find the weight plate? The sellers said it was 5400 originally, so presumably they down-plated it, or the sellers did, presumably before converting it to a camper. I don't know how much it weighs now but will try to get it weighed.

When you say repair the suspension, you mean repair the air suspension rather than swapping to springs?

I'm not sure the insurance company knows what suspension it has. When looking for parts through Autodoc and a Citroen dealer, they said the reg/VIN indicate it has leaf suspension and one rear axle, which is why they can't advise on what parts I need for air suspension repair.

 

[Geek]

I have a non-standard tag-axle Citroen Relay 2006 2.8 diesel HDI 244, rated up to 5.4 tonnes but currently about 4-4.5t according to the previous owners. It used to be a mobile office for the police, and was subsequently converted.

The air bags are leaking and cracking, so I need to replace them, which will cost about a grand just for parts.

I don't know where you got that price from, but it's insane. My air suspension needed new air springs a few years ago.

They were easy to source: all you need is the dimensions, the mounting hole and air pipe connection position and you're sorted.

No vehicle manufacturer or adapter makes air springs. They buy off-the-shelf parts, and so can you.

It took me less than half an hour to find two suppliers, both with actual stock. I forget the details, but I recall they were about £65 each. That might have been plus vat.

Fitting them would have been easy if the nuts were less rusty and the van less heavy, so I had it done by a local commercial vehicle garage. Didn't cost much.

Don't even think about going back to tin springs. Air is vastly better.

 

[zizajaun]

I don't know where you got that price from, but it's insane. My air suspension needed new air springs a few years ago.

They were easy to source: all you need is the dimensions, the mounting hole and air pipe connection position and you're sorted.

No vehicle manufacturer or adapter makes air springs. They buy off-the-shelf parts, and so can you.

It took me less than half an hour to find two suppliers, both with actual stock. I forget the details, but I recall they were about £65 each. That might have been plus vat.

Fitting them would have been easy if the nuts were less rusty and the van less heavy, so I had it done by a local commercial vehicle garage. Didn't cost much.

Don't even think about going back to tin springs. Air is vastly better.

These are the ones Autodoc says fit my vehicle. They are about £500. https://www.autodoc.co.uk/fast/19225459

I also found a place in York that installs air suspension. They said it would be £1,300 per axle, including labour, so over 2 grand for my rear two. They charge 500 per axle for coils.

The cheapest air kits I can find on ebay are about £200, and I'm not sure what quality they are.

 

[maingate]

I don't know where you got that price from, but it's insane. My air suspension needed new air springs a few years ago.

They were easy to source: all you need is the dimensions, the mounting hole and air pipe connection position and you're sorted.

No vehicle manufacturer or adapter makes air springs. They buy off-the-shelf parts, and so can you.

It took me less than half an hour to find two suppliers, both with actual stock. I forget the details, but I recall they were about £65 each. That might have been plus vat.

Fitting them would have been easy if the nuts were less rusty and the van less heavy, so I had it done by a local commercial vehicle garage. Didn't cost much.

Don't even think about going back to tin springs. Air is vastly better.

As I said earlier, there is a huge price difference between an AlKo tag axle setup and a normal 4 wheel ehicle with cart springs.