We're back! New van ready to rock n roll!

debs said:
Very nicely done. What reclassification did you manage to get off DVLA please?
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Give them a chance, I only posted it yesterday :D
I gave the paperwork my all, 4 page covering letter, 27 photos, and ensured ever i was dotted etc - but ultimately its down to the person ticking a box or not and regardless of the the facts, if they think its a van its a van.
I was going to go to wiltshire police HQ and get them to point at a sign saying "looks like a motorcaravan" lol - but lockdown stopped that. (I'm 200m away from them and they are generally a friendly bunch - who knows if they would or not....
So I'd say 5% chance of "motor caravan" - 80% chance of "van with windows" and 15% chance of some other random classification of horsebox or moped.
I'll let you know once I know.
 
debs said:
Yea, that's what I got, but at least the insurance people understand this crazy situation. I like the French description....Camping Car!👍
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Yeah, but speed limits, parking restrictions, congestion & emissions zones.... And not getting full range of insurance options, let alone ease of resale and value etc

(I know limits, emissions etc are not based on body type but DfT definitions, but that does not help if you come back from a 4mth trip with files and court dates from numerous countries as DVLA say "its a van" In the UK you can argue and win (as you are right) - but its resources and hassle each time, but try doing that abroad!)

DVLA are such a small minded bunch who can't follow their own procedures, leaving it to a low powered high ego clerk to make the decisions whilst not fully understanding the impact. All they say is "its only how it looks" - but in the real world it isn't. If it failed because I didn't follow their rules, so be it, but every rule is ticked - yet they don't care.

(The rules are also so badly written, with holes and scope for their personal opinions its a joke. Give it in black n white and stop the guesswork! )

Grr.
 
In all honesty, I don't understand the rules either. Your van is effectively the same as mine, and yet we end up with different classifications.

Frankly, in my mind, it's just plain wrong.

The department responsible needs rules that are fair to all, including main manufacturers and conscientious private builders like yourself.
 
I still can't get my head around what DVLA have to gain my not classing as motor caravan. Any ideas?
 
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Is this just being applied to self builders rather than conversion company’s does anyone know?

I suspect it a messy attempt to differentiate between factory built and non factory built similar to how they used Q plates for self built vehicles. My theory falls apart if a factory converted van is classed as van with windows though.
 
Its being applied to both - though type approved are OK - e.g. registered from new (apparently). Some converters have had issues - esp the smaller ones.

Facebook is full of almost identical white van conversions with the same generic ebay "motorhome graphics" - some with awnings, some not, some pass with motorcaravan, some don't. There is no corrolation. Those that pass don't want to go into detail (incase it bites them back I guess!). But does depend on an individual opinion on the day - and not whats written in black n white

So in my "letter" I sent included photos of type approved "motorcaravans" that look the same (e.g. black/dark grey van conversions) - most had less graphics etc - yet they are MC and mine is a van.

Standard Letter came today saying "it does not have necessary permanent external features" and to see the guidance form - yet I tick all boxes and showed each element. But their decision is final so sod off.

What is stupid, is they say its so police can identify it in traffic - but without a doubt I could park in a line of other black van conversions of pro vans, and they'd all look the same to the police - yet they are classed differently. There is no logic and DVLA have no concept of the future issues of their decisions. I'd be happy to be a van with windows *if* there was another box on the v5 saying: "Primary usage of vehicle" = motorcarvan - which would appease all (as long as congestion / emissions / speeding looked at that box)
 
I feel your pain, as you have found this country has a lot of bureaucracy that doesn't make any sense.
When you concider that these rules have been collated by some of our more intelligent people, you have to wonder where common sense comes in.
If they are there so that the police and other authorities can recognise it as a motohome then surely the exterior is the most important aspect, obviously the interior should be such that it can't be used as a commercial vehicle.
As you have found common sense isn't applied but this happens in a lot of instances right across all of the decisions made by our bureaucrats.
The problem is that the system is much bigger than the individual.
Don't let the system spoil a beautiful conversion, be proud of it and enjoy it.
 
Lee said:
..that these rules have been collated by some of our more intelligent people, ...
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:censored:


Will enjoy as soon as we can take it out! We've added a movie projector so can have 55" movie screen with audio out of the rear sound system - so can party on the drive!

Until we can escape, I have time to return the pain and cause extra work and grief, so will try and keep the bureaucrats busy until I get bored. Not expecting the classification to change, but I want my name there known as "that annoying and persistent bastard". :)
 
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St3v3 said:
I still can't get my head around what DVLA have to gain my not classing as motor caravan. Any ideas?
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Maybe there is a long term plan which means that motorhomes will gain and vans with lose by getting charged more. I actually think it's just officialdom gone mad....you still have to tell DVLA that interior has been modified but know that the use won't be changed. I agree, a subcategory showing use as motor Home would be a good answer.
 
Molly 3 said:
Wow that is up their with the best .
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For a van with windows, its not bad lol. Shame its not an official campervan. Thx for kind comment
Thanks for kind comments, will have to see how it works once we're allowed to go somehwere!
3 nights on parents drive (helping them move, so permitted) doesn't count.

We'll be at some motorhomer meets if they run
 
ActiveCampers said:
Van with side windows. No letter. No explanation.
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Poor customer service when they don't feedback the reclassification failure. Appreciate without doubt your excellent conversion is for all intent purpose a motor caravan BUT.

V1006 Motor Caravan Checklist:

2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (does not include windows on drivers or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation.

Is No1 of the 5 criteria on the checklist that you don't have and possibly failed classification on this point. Can you put a slot window or a port hole one in on one side?
 
DnK said:
Poor customer service when they don't feedback the reclassification failure. Appreciate without doubt your excellent conversion is for all intent purpose a motor caravan BUT.

V1006 Motor Caravan Checklist:

2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (does not include windows on drivers or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation.

Is No1 of the 5 criteria on the checklist that you don't have and possibly failed classification on this point. Can you put a slot window or a port hole one in on one side?
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I disagree with your interpretation, due to badly written and ambiguous rule to be honest.

The rule says "2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body"

My interpretation, is that means 2 or more windows in the rear of the van, excluding rear door and roof - e.g. on at least one side, and could be one side or two sides. So a total of 2 or more windows on "the sides".

In my view, if they wanted a minimum of 2 windows on one side, they would write "At least 2 windows on one side" and left it at that.

Ambiguous.

No worse that the other rule:
  • an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle
Does that mean either side as in offside or nearside; or either side as in both sides!!

Or "must be a high top"

How high? Is H2 high top? Or H3? Whats the minimum internal height? etc

Regardless, the design is how I want the van and I'd not put another window in as it'd compromise what I want. So if thats *it* then I'll take it on the chin.

(Also there are pro motor caravans with one one side window on each side (and some on the rear, but they don't count no matter how you interpret the rules) - and some self builds with the same have gone through, and a great number with 2 windows on one side have failed! No set pattern or consistency)



TBH - you could be right, but the rule is there to ensure sufficient light enters the vehicle. With 3 skylights as well as 2 side windows, it has plenty. That should be the judge! I guess I could remove a window and put 2 smaller ones in on a ply panel :D :D :D /madness.


Watch this space
 
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We just decided to take it on the chin....had other stuff to do at the time ( not lockdown) and as we have the van as we want it, not going to add awning and extra window we don't need. There are some who have added a big decal saying " motorhome" and another " happy wanderer" but were still refused. It makes no sense, but good luck with your appeals, and enjoy it as much as you can on the driveway. Don't forget to keep the refusal letter as proof you tried to register. I was asked to send them to a couple of the insurance companies when getting quotes. Only one which refused to insure a van with windows as a motor caravan, was Saga.
 
ActiveCampers said:
I disagree with your interpretation, due to badly written and ambiguous rule to be honest.

The rule says "2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body"

My interpretation, is that means 2 or more windows in the rear of the van, excluding rear door and roof - e.g. on at least one side, and could be one side or two sides. So a total of 2 or more windows on "the sides".

In my view, if they wanted a minimum of 2 windows on one side, they would write "At least 2 windows on one side" and left it at that.
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Its not my interpretation it's what it states clearly on the V1006 Motor Caravan Checklist under the heading of Permanent External Features.

I do agree what you have is absolutely clearly a motor caravan but unfortunately it does not meet with their absolute criteria.
 

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I would put money on that if you took a standard panel van, and did your own re-creation of a top of the range Autotrail or Malibu or Carthago PCV , everything bar the logo, the DVLA will only call it “van with windows” . I know of a couple of people who have created their own builds to the letter, and each have been rejected with no reason given and have had cancelled appeals as well. Do these large companies have a hold on the DVLA?
 
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