What a shambles…..

[runnach]

Not great news for any members looking to visit our Inner Hebrides.

MV Isle of Mull to be partially removed from service for three weeks …then again over two busy weekends in May and June.

Whilst the the prolonged absence from the fleet of the Caledonian Isles will not be impacting Mull’s broader summer timetable, there is set to be a three week period of disruption resulting f…

mullandionaferrycommittee.org

 

[marchie]

Not great news for any members looking to visit our Inner Hebrides.

MV Isle of Mull to be partially removed from service for three weeks …then again over two busy weekends in May and June.

Whilst the the prolonged absence from the fleet of the Caledonian Isles will not be impacting Mull’s broader summer timetable, there is set to be a three week period of disruption resulting f…

mullandionaferrycommittee.org

This has been a problem long enough, Terry, to suggest that both the Scottish Government ('SG') and Calmac are hamstrung, possibly/probably over finances (or lack thereof)

SG knows the need for the Ferries, but is also mindful of the need to try to preserve shipbuilding employment (imagine the outcry if the contract went to a foreign shipbuilder whilst the Scottish shipyard went bust). Calmac knows how to run a ferry service, but needs adequate finances (and public finance subsidies to meet the social/public service needs), but presumably cannot obtain them

DFDS are not shy when acquiring Ferry Routes, but I don't think they're sniffing around at present, which perhaps tells you all you need to know ...

Steve

 

[2cv]

This has been a problem long enough, Terry, to suggest that both the Scottish Government ('SG') and Calmac are hamstrung, possibly/probably over finances (or lack thereof)

SG knows the need for the Ferries, but is also mindful of the need to try to preserve shipbuilding employment (imagine the outcry if the contract went to a foreign shipbuilder whilst the Scottish shipyard went bust). Calmac knows how to run a ferry service, but needs adequate finances (and public finance subsidies to meet the social/public service needs), but presumably cannot obtain them

DFDS are not shy when acquiring Ferry Routes, but I don't think they're sniffing around at present, which perhaps tells you all you need to know ...

Steve

Ferries built in Turkey should arrive later in the year to alleviate the current problems https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67956872
Meanwhile the Ferguson Marine yard rescued by the government have no future orders.

 

[runnach]

I would always advocate shipbuilding, engineering types of work remain within the UK, but we as a nation are incapable of manufacturing anything these days that work first time, on time, and on budget. I could reel off examples, but this fall into a political debate. UK, certainly Scotland is broke, if in this case ferries be constructed elsewhere, on budget, and on time, which we as a nation cannot do anymore, then send the work offshore.

 

[marchie]

Ferries built in Turkey should arrive later in the year to alleviate the current problems https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67956872
Meanwhile the Ferguson Marine yard rescued by the government have no future orders.

And that's the 'devil and the deep blue sea' conundrum. If it were private equity making the decisions, the shipyard would be closed, the workers sacked, and the ferry ordered from the lowest bidder, and the customers screwed royally when it comes to the fare structure

Steve

 

[Pauljenny]

Sad..
But true.

 

[runnach]

And that's the 'devil and the deep blue sea' conundrum. If it were private equity making the decisions, the shipyard would be closed, the workers sacked, and the ferry ordered from the lowest bidder, and the customers screwed royally when it comes to the fare structure

Steve

Steve, when I worked in industry, if the company lost a contract due to cost, and current work was lean, you got bagged, pick up your tools and find another job, this was private industry ie: Motherwell Bridge, Fife IndMar. One company I worked for got bought over then asset stripped, with manufacturing going to China, in facts some of the lads went over to setup and train the bat eaters. Came home and were bagged. That is life, no work, no job, find another, I always did.

As a shipbuilding nation, we should be ashamed of the Ferguson brown envelopes of our money, scandal, which will be swept under the carpet.

 

[marchie]

Steve, when I worked in industry, if the company lost a contract due to cost, and current work was lean, you got bagged, pick up your tools and find another job, this was private industry ie: Motherwell Bridge, Fife IndMar. One company I worked for got bought over then asset stripped, with manufacturing going to China, in facts some of the lads went over to setup and train the bat eaters. Came home and were bagged. That is life, no work, no job, find another, I always did.

As a shipbuilding nation, we should be ashamed of the Ferguson brown envelopes of our money, scandal, which will be swept under the carpet.

Evidence of brown envelopes, Terry?

Steve

 

[2cv]

Evidence of brown envelopes, Terry?

Steve

Possibly not brown envelopes but certainly questionable payments https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-64954744

 

[runnach]

Evidence of brown envelopes, Terry?

Steve

Not bad money for sitting behind a desk, while the workers graft for peanuts in comparison.


“The report said he was paid £1.8m during his time at the yard between August 2019 and February 2022”

 

[marchie]

Not bad money for sitting behind a desk, while the workers graft for peanuts in comparison.


“The report said he was paid £1.8m during his time at the yard between August 2019 and February 2022”

Being paid a high salary is not a prima facie case of fraud, but could well be that the individual talked a better game than he could play!

Executive pay across the UK is acknowledged to be a disgrace by Pension Funds, Institutional Investors and a couple of private (I e. small, 'man/woman in the street) investor groups and Motions of disapproval/criticism are proposed at AGMs, but with limited success to date

Steve

Steve

 

[2cv]

Being paid a high salary is not a prima facie case of fraud, but could well be that the individual talked a better game than he could play!

Executive pay across the UK is acknowledged to be a disgrace by Pension Funds, Institutional Investors and a couple of private (I e. small, 'man/woman in the street) investor groups and Motions of disapproval/criticism are proposed at AGMs, but with limited success to date

Steve

Steve

I think that the unapproved bonuses paid to 6 senior mangers caused more controversy than the ludicrous amount received by the chief.

 

[runnach]

Being paid a high salary is not a prima facie case of fraud, but could well be that the individual talked a better game than he could play!

Executive pay across the UK is acknowledged to be a disgrace by Pension Funds, Institutional Investors and a couple of private (I e. small, 'man/woman in the street) investor groups and Motions of disapproval/criticism are proposed at AGMs, but with limited success to date

Steve

Steve

I don’t understand you defending these greedy people, Steve?

They are lining their nests with our taxed money.

 

[marchie]

I don’t understand you defending these greedy people, Steve?

They are lining their nests with our taxed money.

Not defending them, Terry; just cannot see that there is evidence of corruption, for which 'brown envelope' is a shorthand term to refer to cash payments for dishonest purposes (often tax evasion initially, but then accompanied by other malpractice and/or dishonesty when the digging gets under way)

There is a world of difference between dishonesty and incompetence, and the CPS and Serious Fraud Office have seen many prosecutions fail early on in Court proceedings over the years, with cases thrown out in the early stages

'Questions to be answered' could cover procedure, exercise of judgement, based on the information available at the time, misinterpretation of whether the individual(s) had full authority or temporary permissions to take decisions, lines of communication, and many others, without there necessarily being any evidence of a 'brown envelope' culture

Steve

 

[runnach]

Click on “Inquiries”.

Ferry Fiasco (Scotland) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[runnach]

Ultimately thought, OP is about how this shambles can affect any of us members looking to tour our Inner and Outer Hebrides. Pentland ferries appear to work efficiently.

 

[CWH]

While I sympathise, it's somewhat more of an issue for islanders ..... particularly as alongside these planned withdrawals from service there will inevitably be the usual breakdowns .....

 

[runnach]

My mate who originates from Mull in this example, and has lived central belt for decades.

He has a couple of rental homes in Tobermory where his bookings have dropped dramatically, mainly due to regulars not booking due to the unreliable ferry service. There are not many campsites on Mull, this impacts on them too!!

I also hope poor ferry service does not impact the fabulous and free Mull music festival. A fantastic event.

Mull Music Festival 2024

The Mull Music Festival is a fabulous long weekend of Scottish music featuring folk-rock bands, fiddle, accordion, dance and ceilidh bands. It takes place in several hotel and bar venues in Tobermory and one in Dervaig. The events aren’t ticketed, and most are very crowded! Up-to-date...

visitmullandiona.co.uk

 

[davef]

It is not just the incompetence of building the ferries, it's that everything is wrong with them . On Arran, they took a perfectly good terminal at Brodick, spent millions to make a new terminal and pier that all the captains told CalMac was wrong, but they simply went ahead with their mad plan which means the ferry can no longer dock in easterlies as the swell makes it untenable - just as they were told it would. The earlier access and car marshalling was altered so now cars queue into the main road causing chaos at ferry times. Then they ordered 2 monster ferries dual fuel to virtue signal to the world how green they are even though the LNG fuel cannot be used within 20 minutes of the port - on a 50 minute crossing, and is to be trucked up from the south coast with no land holding tank. The new ferry despite being so much bigger than the current one, will carry fewer passengers and only slightly more vehicles, but is too big to get into the mainland harbour! The privately owned Ardrossan harbour are not altering the harbour to allow the ferries to dock until they are sure they will actually run, so even if the new ferries do eventually start running they will have to go to an alternative less convenient harbour for a couple of years while Ardrossan is upgraded. They are huge to accommodate the enormous LNG tank and supposedly an entire deck for crew accommodation, yes that's right for a 50 minute crossing with huge terminal buildings at each end on land that should be able to house any crew that needed it.
Islanders are beginning to think the government can't be this incompetent and that they are implementing UN Agenda 21 to depopulate rural areas, a new island clearance. Already we know of friends who have moved off the island because you can never be sure if you will be able to get off or come back to the island - not ideal if you have urgent hospital or other appointments to make.
In the 50 odd years I have lived here it has never been so unreliable and so awkward to get on and off the island. Inconvenient for motorhomers, a disaster for islanders.

 

[runnach]

It is not just the incompetence of building the ferries, it's that everything is wrong with them . On Arran, they took a perfectly good terminal at Brodick, spent millions to make a new terminal and pier that all the captains told CalMac was wrong, but they simply went ahead with their mad plan which means the ferry can no longer dock in easterlies as the swell makes it untenable - just as they were told it would. The earlier access and car marshalling was altered so now cars queue into the main road causing chaos at ferry times. Then they ordered 2 monster ferries dual fuel to virtue signal to the world how green they are even though the LNG fuel cannot be used within 20 minutes of the port - on a 50 minute crossing, and is to be trucked up from the south coast with no land holding tank. The new ferry despite being so much bigger than the current one, will carry fewer passengers and only slightly more vehicles, but is too big to get into the mainland harbour! The privately owned Ardrossan harbour are not altering the harbour to allow the ferries to dock until they are sure they will actually run, so even if the new ferries do eventually start running they will have to go to an alternative less convenient harbour for a couple of years while Ardrossan is upgraded. They are huge to accommodate the enormous LNG tank and supposedly an entire deck for crew accommodation, yes that's right for a 50 minute crossing with huge terminal buildings at each end on land that should be able to house any crew that needed it.
Islanders are beginning to think the government can't be this incompetent and that they are implementing UN Agenda 21 to depopulate rural areas, a new island clearance. Already we know of friends who have moved off the island because you can never be sure if you will be able to get off or come back to the island - not ideal if you have urgent hospital or other appointments to make.
In the 50 odd years I have lived here it has never been so unreliable and so awkward to get on and off the island. Inconvenient for motorhomers, a disaster for islanders.

A very sad, and informative post from you, a resident islander. While the ferry debacle can be an inconvenience to us wishing to visit Arran ( we did Arran after Covid easing). You made so many valid points that had not considered, although I have wondered where the highly volatile LNG would be stored, and I now know, no storage apart from the vessel itself, when finished.

CM fairly recently bought a small second hand ferry from Norway, derv powered, the Noggies took it out of service which CM purchased. The Noggies are replacing their ferry fleet to LNG and, Electric.

How is it a country with similar geology, climate, population numbers can get it right, when we can’t???

Sheer incompetence.