Would you still buy a new EV?

[gasgas]

...at least three days due to a single fire incident that took eleven fire stations to put out -- and even then they couldn't confirm the burned out vehicles were safe.

I dont think that any fire brigade can put out an electric car fire. All they can do is stand by and hose down anything nearby that might catch fire. EV batteries have their own fuel and when burning generate their own oxygen. So you have fuel and oxygen - that's all you need for a fire and spraying water on it won't make diddly squat difference. The smoke and gases given off liquefy your lungs if you breathe it in so the fire attendants would need life support suits if they got anywhere within smelling distance.
I guess there will be a crater in the road. There was that car ferry which actually melted. The ship melted because of EV fires in it. They burned holes in the side of the hull. I think the fire burns at something like 2000 degrees C. It sank.

 

[GeoffL]

[...] EV batteries have their own fuel and when burning generate their own oxygen. So you have fuel and oxygen - that's all you need for a fire and spraying water on it won't make diddly squat difference. [...]

While spraying might not seem to do a great deal, Tesla recommend spraying the battery pack with massive amounts of water (but then, how do you contain the toxic runoff?) but even then they say the damaged vehicle must be stored well away from anything combustible. Another of the current methods is to totally immerse the vehicle. In this case, there were 9 EVs on that transporter and it would have been impossible to crane each off into an immersion tank.

That said, I've just discovered an "advance" that I sincerely hope is fake news. The Chinese seem to have come up with a battery ejection system, so that it is ejected away from the car should it go into thermal runaway. I'd hate to be a pedestrian hit by a 'hot' battery, or learn of a bus-full of school kids in a burning bus set alight by an ejected battery

I did a screen capture and uploaded it to my Dropbox: -> clicky link <-

 

[gasgas]

that sounds about as useful as a Baker ejector seat in a helicopter without a floor door.

"In this case, there were 9 EVs on that transporter and it would have been impossible to crane each off into an immersion tank."
Have I been out of the loop, or might I be right in thinking that this event has not been on the news? I wonder why not? Actually I don't wonder, it might have put someone off buying an EV. That would never do, deary deary me, we don't want the public to think there is a flaw with an EV do we?

 

[GeoffL]

"In this case, there were 9 EVs on that transporter and it would have been impossible to crane each off into an immersion tank."
Have I been out of the loop, or might I be right in thinking that this event has not been on the news? I wonder why not? Actually I don't wonder, it might have put someone off buying an EV. That would never do, deary deary me, we don't want the public to think there is a flaw with an EV do we?

It was on the local media but all links posted in the usual Social Media platforms seemed to have disappeared very quickly (the one I noted on Facebook disappeared while I was reading it!) The cynic in me suspects nefarious intent behind the cover up. Even where this was reported, what little mention from the mainstream media seems to have noted that the brakes on the transporter's trailer overheated, causing the fire; which we are then left from omission to infer that this was just an ICEV fire with no mention of the EVs. YouTuber "Geoff Buys Cars" did a little digging and found (at least on the balance of probability) the EVs were BYD cars. I can accept that the EVs didn't start the fire, but if that transporter had been carrying ICEVs, fewer fire service responders would have been required, and it would probably have taken no more than an hour to extinguish.

Here's the report from Cornwall Live:

and here's a couple of videos from Geoff Buys Cars:

and another

 

[maingate]

It was on the local media but all links posted in the usual Social Media platforms seemed to have disappeared very quickly (the one I noted on Facebook disappeared while I was reading it!) The cynic in me suspects nefarious intent behind the cover up. Even where this was reported, what little mention from the mainstream media seems to have noted that the brakes on the transporter's trailer overheated, causing the fire; which we are then left from omission to infer that this was just an ICEV fire with no mention of the EVs. YouTuber "Geoff Buys Cars" did a little digging and found (at least on the balance of probability) the EVs were BYD cars. I can accept that the EVs didn't start the fire, but if that transporter had been carrying ICEVs, fewer fire service responders would have been required, and it would probably have taken no more than an hour to extinguish.

Here's the report from Cornwall Live:

and here's a couple of videos from Geoff Buys Cars:

and another

I watch Geoff buys cars when it pops up on YT. He was the first I saw who put the news out about the new AI cameras being deployed and he made a video of them close up.
It was on the TV News just this morning about BYD EVs. They have a different arrangement with the British (should that be anti-British) Government in that the Chinese Communist Party subsidises the price of them and our glorious Government does not need to give a discount to buyers. Something like that anyway. They are the top selling EV brand in the UK and sell tens of thousands of them over here.

 

[gasgas]

I'll get my red flag out . . . . .
What I want to see is a photo or video of the truck before it was all engulfed in flames. If a tyre breaks up as has been claimed, usually the tread separated from the carcase and rolls along the carriageway and comes to rest on the verge, as you will have seen. If a tyre deflates I would have thought that on a £300,000 transporter there would be a warning in the cab. If either of these two scenarios happened it may have caused the lorry to catch fire before the cars. In the absence of photographic evidence, there is a balance of probabilities as to whether the lorry set the cars on fire, or the cars set the lorry on fire. Some early photos or videos would show which caught fire first.
I must say, thinking about it that I have never seen a lorry all by itself on fire. The most amusing car transporter accident I saw was when a truck load of new BMWs failed to get under a railway bridge. He must have been going some, pretending he was driving one of the BMWs. He nearly made it through the other side of the low bridge and the top row of BMWs were scattered over the nearby fields. The driver was nowhere to be seen. Probably on the cross channel ferry polishing up is French application for an HGV licence . . .

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Truck brakes would be more likely to start the fire, then ignite the tyres.

 

[gasgas]

Correct, Pudsey. I was riding my motorbike and saw in front of me on the road what looked like a lump of metal, smoking. It was in the direct line of traffic so I stopped by the side of it and when the cars had passed I went to pick it up. It was a quarter of a lorry disc and was 'red hot' - melting the tarmac. I kicked it to the side of the road and waited for it to cool. It now sits on my garage floor and I prop my bike's side stand on it. Consequently every time I go out for a ride I have to see it, and it reminds me that observation is probably the number one priority when riding.

 

[GeoffL]

I've just seen more evidence of why to not buy an EV... a number of firefighters stood hundreds of feet away from a wrecked (but not burning) Tesla now have breathing issues after the battery pack released a vapour cloud:

 

[Sean]

Just ordered my second one.
Arrives first Monday of December.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

2nd what?

 

[gasgas]

I'm not a chemical graduate, but there is an amusing but serious Australian youtuber called John Cadogan who has gone into incredible detail about the toxicisity of the gases given off from an EV fire. What it amounts to is if you breathe it in, the acid dissolves your lungs. I'm not surprised the fire fighters have breathing difficulties. As will those who stand around to watch, and anyone unfortunate enough to be caught in an underground car park with an EV burning. I'm not sure if this video includes chemical analysis of the self destruction of the batteries but if not, just amuse yourselves looking at his other EV related videos.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

After that, I'd sign up to ban the bloody things; there's already enough stuff out there waiting to get us into an early grave.

 

[Devadave]

"69p / kwh." Leccy at home is 46p / kwh. Or, free if you have solar panels as I do.
Sitting in the car for three hours at Lidl will cost you £70 in a fine from the over-2 hrs parking limit.


And watch out if you have solar panels at home as I do. I had a Nissan Leaf, new. When the sun shone directly on to the solar panels I would plug the car in and get free charging. After 2 years and 8000 miles the PCP was up. Nissan wrote to me and said do I want to buy it for £18,000? No thanks, the battery was not much good - 35 mile range. It was on a no up-front payment and no end of contract payment, just £185 / month pcp. So I just gave the car back, and said to Nissan you can keep the wretched thing.
Later I had a call from the guy who bought it at an auction for £6,000. He noticed the battery was goosed, and it has a 5 year warranty. He took it to a Nissan dealer and said new battery please, its rubbish. Nissan dealer plugged their computer in and it logged each and every time the battery had been charged. "The previous owner plugged it in to recharge it when it was already 80% full. That voids the warranty". Was I told that when I bought it? Not on your nelly. So the new owner had to pay out £5000 for a new battery.
So if you do get an electric car the range (since you must not, apparently let the battery go below 20% nor recharge it if it is 80%) is actually 60% of the actual range, which in turn at best is 80% of the claimed range.

Wow, thats good information

 

[Devadave]

After that, I'd sign up to ban the bloody things; there's already enough stuff out there waiting to get us into an early grave.

We live near Ellesmere Port, we were away 3 months in Europe, then back to UK spent a month darn sarf 2 rally and visiting friends, no health breathing issues whole time.
Came home, within 5 days had throat and then chest infections since then Yup defo enough in the air to do us in already...
(Ps my car is a 2002 SAAB convertible, every year I think "could this be the end" then boom, it passes its MOT for less than £500 and another year continues) toot toot

 

[Pudsey Bear]

And the Saab did all its environmental damage 23 years ago.

 

[Devadave]

And the Saab did all its environmental damage 23 years ago.

So it's just the low cost maintenance ps I also love the car, nearly as much as the MH