Aerotoxic radio programme.

[2cv]

Interesting, starts at 26:30

Also see aerotoxic.org

It would seem that after decades of denial, things may at last be beginning to move on this,

 

[Trotter]

I wonder why I bought a camper instead of flying to the med for my holidays, and then spending at least two days and nights sitting on the loo with something similar to Norovirus. Never for a minute did I think it was because I’d been breathing other people’s breath for three to four hours....Much!
Why should anyone think this is something new.

 

[Full Member]

Interesting, starts at 26:30

Also see aerotoxic.org

It would seem that after decades of denial, things may at last be beginning to move on this,

Thanks, Bill. I'll certainly be listening to this one.
If anyone else wants to catch-up on this topic and Bill's link doesn't work for you, it was broadcast on BBC World Service on Wednesday 1/1/20 at 01:06. It's the second half of the 'Business Matters' programme.

Colin

 

[2cv]

I wonder why I bought a camper instead of flying to the med for my holidays, and then spending at least two days and nights sitting on the loo with something similar to Norovirus. Never for a minute did I think it was because I’d been breathing other people’s breath for three to four hours....Much!
Why should anyone think this is something new.

This is not at all to do with catching germs from others but is to do with oil fumes getting into the cabin air because of the way air for the cabin is obtained. It’s a problem which started in the 1950s when bleed air was first used for air conditioning.
I suspect that at least two friends have died as a result of it and know of many others whose health has been ruined by it.
Whilst on an individual flight it’s unlikely that there will be a significant exposure, the cumulative effects of many flights can result in problems, and technical failures resulting in “fume events” can cause immediate and lasting damage.

 

[Trotter]

This is not at all to do with catching germs from others but is to do with oil fumes getting into the cabin air because of the way air for the cabin is obtained. It’s a problem which started in the 1950s When bleed air was first used for air conditioning.
I suspect that at least two friends have died as a result of it and know of many others whose health has been ruined by it.
Whilst on an individual flight it’s unlikely that there will be a significant exposure, the cumulative effects of many flights can result in problems, and technical failures resulting in “fume events” can cause immediate and lasting damage.

Whatever

 

[Full Member]

Whatever

The effects of these fumes are now believed to seriously affect the health and general well-being of cabin crew, Del.
Bill initially drew attention to the problem in order that those who wish to can make themselves aware of the current situation. He has then simply tried to clarify our understanding of the problem and explained how it differs from the spread of infection via the aircraft's air conditioning system.
Sometimes it's better not to contribute to a discussion if it holds no interest and/or one has nothing to contribute.
This topic certainly doesn't deserve ridicule or flippancy.

Colin

 

[Val54]

The effects of these fumes are now believed to seriously affect the health and general well-being of cabin crew, Del.
Bill initially drew attention to the problem in order that those who wish to can make themselves aware of the current situation. He has then simply tried to clarify our understanding of the problem and explained how it differs from the spread of infection via the aircraft's air conditioning system.
Sometimes it's better not to contribute to a discussion if it holds no interest and/or one has nothing to contribute.
This topic certainly doesn't deserve ridicule or flippancy.

Colin

Well said Colin, I wasn’t going to be so polite .....

 

[Trotter]

The effects of these fumes are now believed to seriously affect the health and general well-being of cabin crew, Del.
Bill initially drew attention to the problem in order that those who wish to can make themselves aware of the current situation. He has then simply tried to clarify our understanding of the problem and explained how it differs from the spread of infection via the aircraft's air conditioning system.
Sometimes it's better not to contribute to a discussion if it holds no interest and/or one has nothing to contribute.
This topic certainly doesn't deserve ridicule or flippancy.

Colin

It also affects the travelling public. If my “whatever” is taken as flippancy, then so be it. In my original reply, I was stating the fact that aircrew were not the only people to be affected by “ unclean” air.
Contributing to a discussion is just that. A contribution. If unwelcome or a contradiction, does that not add to a discussion?

 

[2cv]

It also affects the travelling public. If my “whatever” is taken as flippancy, then so be it. In my original reply, I was stating the fact that aircrew were not the only people to be affected by “ unclean” air.
Contributing to a discussion is just that. A contribution. If unwelcome or a contradiction, does that not add to a discussion?

Your “whatever” response did appear flippant to me. I strongly believe that the aerotoxic problem needs greater exposure in order for manufacturers and operators to act to prevent many further lives from being ruined. The technology to do so, be it by filters or design, is currently available.
The reluctance to prevent future exposure is, I believe, because to do so is to admit past exposure.
You are correct that it also affects the travelling public, especially when a “fume event” occurs, but in day to day exposure crew are subjected to the small doses daily which accumulate.
People are genetically different, and this is why similar exposure affects different individuals in different ways.
The sad consequences of exposure to aircraft oil vapour certainly mean that this should not be a topic to be treated flippantly.

 

[trevskoda]

And what about poor old me stuck in garages all day with dirty engines running back in the seventys,then having to stand at belfast city centre bus center chocking for 15 mins every working day,fact is nearly all of use have been through the mill with toxins of some sort yet we live much longer than our g/parents ,ok better medical help may have helped but we still got poisened.

 

[trevskoda]

Forgot i thing change org or others have been on the case for well over a year now which i put my name to the sheet.

 

[Trotter]

And what about poor old me stuck in garages all day with dirty engines running back in the seventys,then having to stand at belfast city centre bus center chocking for 15 mins every working day,fact is nearly all of use have been through the mill with toxins of some sort yet we live much longer than our g/parents ,ok better medical help may have helped but we still got poisened.

I think that’s what’s wrong today, litigation, litigation. It’s always someone else’s fault. Someone needs to pay. I do feel sorry for anyone who contracts an illness. But, unfortunately, sometimes, Life gets in the way .
If that upsets anyone, then, tough.

 

[trevskoda]

I think that’s what’s wrong today, litigation, litigation. It’s always someone else’s fault. Someone needs to pay. I do feel sorry for anyone who contracts an illness. But, unfortunately, sometimes, Life gets in the way .
If that upsets anyone, then, tough.

True as we only find things out many years later,dont think its anyone fault,its just evalution of events and new findings.
Remember asbestos,roofs springs to mind.

 

[2cv]

And what about poor old me stuck in garages all day with dirty engines running back in the seventys,then having to stand at belfast city centre bus center chocking for 15 mins every working day,fact is nearly all of use have been through the mill with toxins of some sort yet we live much longer than our g/parents ,ok better medical help may have helped but we still got poisened.

It’s bad that you were subjected to that but at least you appear to have survived intact.
In the Aerotoxic Syndrome case it’s the additives in the specialist oil that cause the medical problems.
I have been tested and these additives were found as expected. By a regime of detoxification I have cleared them, but still suffer from the neurological damage caused, and have suffered the cardiac problems associated with them.
In DNA tests I was found to be poor at removing toxins.
I find it outrageous that despite the evidence people are being exposed unnecessarily to these toxins every day.
Consequence of just one of hundreds of “fume events”

 

[trevskoda]

For the irish whisky is the cure.

 

[2cv]

Much further information Here

 

[2cv]

Grim reading, Bill. This issue could probably been fixed years ago for little cost. I assume new build aircraft do not suffer same as older aircraft?

This came out a year ago from HSE https://www.hse.gov.uk/safetybulletins/mild-steel-welding-fume.htm

Fortunately, I treat all fume from hot work as a health danger, not immediately, but over time, I instill this to my young lads, unfortunately, like aircraft industry, employees health does not matter, as long as the companies are making a buck!!

It could have been fixed a long time ago. Although the basic design is flawed filters are available. I think there may be a reluctance to fit them as to do so is to admit a problem. New aircraft do suffer as well, apart from the 787 which obtains cabin air differently.
Heres a link to some recent events, with an opportunity to sign the petition.
The lady who started the petition has been very helpful in recommending tests and treatment.

 

[Full Member]

It could have been fixed a long time ago. Although the basic design is flawed filters are available. I think there may be a reluctance to fit them as to do so is to admit a problem. New aircraft do suffer as well, apart from the 787 which obtains cabin air differently.
Heres a link to some recent events, with an opportunity to sign the petition.
The lady who started the petition has been very helpful in recommending tests and treatment.

Petition signed.

Colin

 

[2cv]

Incidents are still occurring regularly, such as this one.

 

[2cv]

Todays update demonstrating that poisoning is taking place even on flights with no “fume event”.