Engine re-mapping

Trek

Free Member
I am not disputing tapfitter’s and others findings but i do wonder how these re mapping people can get more out of an engine than the manufacturer

The sceptic in me says if it can be done then the original manufacturer would do it ???

Saying that people who get it done always seem to think its an improvement
 

SimonM

Full Member
The manufacturer has to create an engine that will work within a wide range of conditions and fuel types. It will need to be operated by a multitude of users each with differing requirements, torque, fuel economy and suchlike. It will also have to meet noise and emission requirements relevant to many marketplaces.

As such it tends to be a “safe” map, not too much power, not too much stress, a very easy map that can allow for poor servicing routines without failing all the time

My experience of remapping motorcycles at the simplest will smooth out any artificial low points at specific rpm limits. Most notably where there is a need to achieve a low decibel figure at the point in the rpm where it’s measured c.5000rpm if my memory serves me well.

Mapping out the dip in power caused by this tends to eliminate an artificial flatspot and allows for better acceleration- and often an increase in fuel economy.
 

SimonM

Full Member
Hm, just found one remap on the iPad from 10 years ago to show how a remap has helped to discover an extra 8bhp. High performance m/cs tend to be very efficient already and a remap isn’t a route to high bhp these days, but it helps to show a difference. Admittedly this is from when a was racing and needed as much hp as possible for the least money. Later when I went a bit more extreme a remap was needed to make either the nitrous or the turbo work properly. (Have I got that map to hand? 😎)

38B97B62-2B19-48DA-99D3-2667FFF6D401.jpeg
 

korky

Full Member
A couple of posters have mentioned bombing up hill in 6th,no problem.Really? On a motorway or dual carriageway maybe, but anything like steep and you need to change down to avoid serious damage.
 

Exwindsurfer

Full Member
Wow, that sounds fab.
Mines a 2016 Fiat ducato. 2.3 130bhp I think.
Must admit struggles at anything like a hill in 6th even at cruising speed.
I read somewhere the other day “any modification over 30%+”?
Might have to investigate!
Celtic tuning will take your engine from 130 bhp to 168 bhp
 

Trek

Free Member
Many years ago another mate of mine bought some strong magnets at a camper show to fit around the fuel pipe , it claimed to improve all sorts

In my mind he had been had by the snake oil salesman , he was convinced it improved his engine performance
 

Carrerasax

Full Member
My mate had his 2006 Fiat Ducato chipped Not long after buying it new

He uses cruise control a lot

And has just had his second new clutch


So now on the third and probably only at 50k miles


I suspect that little extra ooph allowed him to leave cruise control on with out changing down on hill and cause clutch to slip
Ouch, don’t like the sound of that. How much does that cost?
 

2cv

Moderator
I don’t know how many miles the van in the original post has done, but the engine in my van didn’t “loosen up” until over 10000 miles. At that point 6th gear became much more useable. Maybe it’s worth just waiting rather than just remapping the engine.
 
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Carrerasax

Full Member
I don’t know how many miles the van in the original post has done, but the engine in my van didn’t “loosen up” until over 10000 miles. At that point 6th gear became much more useable. Maybe it’s worth just waiting rather than just remapping the engine.
Ours has done nearly double that and doesn’t pick up speed very well on very gradual inclines, needs change to fifth and reset of cruise control!!!!!!!!!
 
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eurajohn

Free Member
Can't vouch for the 2.3 Ducato or other makes but with the 2.8 (X244) a re-map will overpower the clutch, fact.
Not a case of crap driver etc. just more torque than the standard clutch can cope with under certain conditions.
There are no readily available up-rated clutch assemblies, possibly someone somewhere will supply.
On other motorhome forums this topic has been well covered.
 

Trek

Free Member
How can you compare a vw polo with probably a single passenger with a FIAT ducato based motorhome probably running around near its max weight


Ps i have heard some peoples describing certain fiat ducatos as having a clutch made of chocolate

There certainly was a bout of complaints from ducato owners some years ago onn other forums
 

SimonM

Full Member
I have had a X244 plus remap, and a X250 with a remap

The X244 needed a new clutch at 14k miles under warranty when I purchased it. The gearbox in both forms, high top or low top gear (the ratio can be changed very easily, I’ve done it) is a complete pita and I agree it could affect the clutch very easily if driven incorrectly. I also used to tow a race bike trailer with it on occasion. The remap helped it to maintain a good top speed in 5th. But I didn’t need a new clutch in 20k extra miles.

My X250 needed a new clutch at 32k miles from memory, it started to slip while I was away in France trundling around the Pyrenees and so on. I noticed it happening in 6th gear using cruise control going up inclines. That I put down to my driving technique making it labour when I should have changed down.

I returned home under my own power making certain not to dial in too much torque unnecessarily. When we changed the clutch a Valeo unit was removed. I used to sell clutches when I was working and whilst Valeo was one brand we were wholesalers for they were a cheaper alternative. I searched the system for an uprated clutch for my 2.3 but the only one available was for the slightly later model that also had a 160 (150?) option that one unfortunately uses a dual mass flywheel and will not interchange.

I decided to use a Schaeffler LUK self adjusting clutch as it was in my opinion a far better option to the Valeo oe unit. Comparing the 2 side by side it appears to be far more robust, made of a heavier gauge metal, and as said above it is also self adjusting and should compensate for wear, something the Valeo unit does not do.

The new clutch has a slightly heavier feel to it, the bite point is different, but otherwise works perfectly.

I have decided not to simply stick it in top gear and on cruise and let it do it’s own thing any more. Once bitten etc. However I am confident the LUK unit is more than up to the job. Fiat would undoubtedly specify as cheap a unit as they could get to maintain a low price on their van - a van that under more normal use is very unlikely to be hauling its maximum weight ALL the time like our MHs.
 

tiderus

Full Member
Hi, I've had plug in units for the last 10 years. Far better, and you can remove them after when changing vehicles. Get about 15% increase in economy with my Sprinter van. Just bought another 2 last week for Discovery and M/home, £65 inc vat and postage each from Diesel Express 01902 402838. He sets them up to your needs and vehicle. I've just been told by my garage that the MOT'S are going to include any alterations to the ecu's, will fail. As they are being modified to show less emictions. If its coming these can be unplugged no prob's. Rgd's Graham.
 

Trek

Free Member
15% improvement in fuel economy is quite an improvement

Silmilar impreressive improvements to power were discussed on first page by Tapfitter “Went from 84bhp to 140bhp”

Thats not far off doubling the power of the same engine without any physical changes!! And if this was the case then the brakes would also need to be uprated


Yet I just can’t see how you can get these improvements without some serious trade off

Or without false claims


I can’t be convinced that the original vehicle manufacturer wouldn’t do this themselves if it was possible

No back street garage will be fiddling with my ecu’s
 

Barnacle

Full Member
Not in all cases , clutches are not capable of just transmitting any amount of power put thru them , the clutch spec for an engine will be sufficient for the torque of the engine fitted with a margin to prevent possible incremental slip . If you change the power characteristics of the engine you will possibly remove the extra margin . That is why there is a substantial market in uprating clutches for vehicles with power increases . There is obviously the large factor of driver operation to be considered as well . Turbocharger vehicles are also more prone to slippage when "tweaked" , and any slip even if only occasional will be a factor in decreasing clutch overall longevity .
I agree not in all cases! I remapped my 2008 Ducato from 100hp to 136hp. I did this myself and before the remap the clutch never slipped at all. With the extra torque the clutch started slipping if I gave it to much throttle in fifth gear.
I am a mechanic and have my own business albeit a one man band situation, I am now past retrial age and changing the clutch was going to be too big a job for me so put it into the local garage to get it changed. I supplied the new clutch and used an heavy duty one. When I went to collect my Motorhome the mechanic there asked me why I wanted to get the clutch changed as the old one had plenty of life left in it With the new clutch in and the remap I find my fuel consumption is better by, on average, 6 to 8 mpg. Perhaps I drive it a little bit lighter than I did as I don’t really want this clutch to slip like the old one!!
 

tapfitter

Full Member
View attachment 42368

It's not all about the speed it's about having the torque to get you up the hills,
1549446140375.png
I have been impressed by my remap, it was not a back street garage, it was done by the best in the industry at Pendle Performance in Barnoldswick in Lancashire. A long journey from Plymouth but well worth it. Not had any issue with clutch or brakes. I rarely have my foot to floor anymore as it just moves with little effort. It makes it a pleasure to drive knowing you have the reserve power should you need it.
 

eurajohn

Free Member
This is where the differences of opinion come from, people like yourself (tapfitter) have a relatively light vehicle, often cars, whereas the majority of doubters (myself included) are referring to Ducato based motorhomes which as pointed out by SimonM are normally running at the very top end (often above) their maximum allowable weight, so the effects of extra torque (and, or horsepower) will not be any where near so obvious or detrimental to the clutch and drive train.
Your T5 was also available in 102 hp and 250 N.m, so probably not too difficult to achieve that amount of increase from your original, I do however like others doubt some of the claims made by the companies that carry out such modifications.
 

Trek

Free Member
This months MMM magazine has an advert for a reprogramming device that looks like a tomtom gps unit and so i suppose could be dash mounted and is cabled to OCBII port


It says it is a hand held tuning device allowing you to change your vehicles performance in just fifteen minutes

It says it gives you five different performance options plus revertion to original settings

The one setting is a valet setting to restrict speed etc when you leave it with someone else
 
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