EV charging point for my car..... melting the 3 pin plugs!

[mistericeman]

Is it worth sticking a clamp on meter on and seeing how much current is actually being drawn?

 

[Millie Master]

Is it worth sticking a clamp on meter on and seeing how much current is actually being drawn?

 

[Ardachaidh]

Having thought about this a bit more I’m not sure I’d go down the proposed route. As Dave said change plug and socket and check fuse isn’t loose. If possible try in a socket in a completely separate circuit To narrow down the possible sources of the problem.

Since ev’s are supplied with a cable with a 13 amp plug and a 10 amp fuse the manufacturer expects them to work without overheating. There’s either something wrong with the plug, the socket, the circuit, the supplied lead or a combination of several issues. If you change to a non-standard set up you may not have any claim if something seriously bad happens. You should probably incorporate a 10amp fuse in any new set up.

(just my thoughts)

 

[Millie Master]

If I had a suitable meter I would do so, however I don't, but now I have fitted the new socket and plug everything is running ice cold .

In the end, I fitted a 32 amp socket and plug from MK, however the entire shooting match is protected by a 10amp trip switch on the individual circuit from the circuit board, I also fitted a 1 mtr. earthing spike connected to the socket with a 5mm multi strand cable and the socket also has the standard house ring main earth as well.

Phil

 

[wildebus]

Having thought about this a bit more I’m not sure I’d go down the proposed route. As Dave said change plug and socket and check fuse isn’t loose. If possible try in a socket in a completely separate circuit To narrow down the possible sources of the problem.

Since ev’s are supplied with a cable with a 13 amp plug and a 10 amp fuse the manufacturer expects them to work without overheating. There’s either something wrong with the plug, the socket, the circuit, the supplied lead or a combination of several issues. If you change to a non-standard set up you may not have any claim if something seriously bad happens. You should probably incorporate a 10amp fuse in any new set up.

(just my thoughts)

You would hope so, but manufacturers almost to a man try to get away with the cheapest possible components for every single part of the vehicle end to end. And BMW are no better than anyone else in this regards despite their prices.

 

[Millie Master]

Honestly, it does make you think how EV owners are being conned left right and centre by overzealous rip-off companies to install a suitable, safe hook up point for their electric vehicles!!

Personally, I had been quoted prices as high as £1,300 to fit a wall or point when the supply cable lying just the opposite side of the wall was of a suitable weight/strength for even quite a reasonably heavy load and yet my application only needed a 10amp supply!

I honestly thought I was doing the right thing after I had decided to do it myself and buy a special Wallpod from the Boston based, specialist company Rolec and when it arrived I was well pleased with the design and apparent construction............ However, once bitten twice shy! On closer inspection and having experienced the first of their 3 pin sockets melting to extinction and then the replacement showing signs it was well on its way to melt down, it was time to change direction!

I closely examine this replacement socket and almost immediately several aspects of the design started to raise doubts in my mind which is why I decided to throw the Rolec Wallpod away and pursue either a 16 amp or possibly a 32 amp installation from MK instead, at a total cost of under £40.
This is all on an individual line from the distribution board to which I changed the cut out trip to 10amp as there isn't otherwise any kind of fusing in the line.

So that's it, it is now working perfectly and even at the highest setting the plug and terminals are remaining cold to the touch.

Thanks one and all for you valued comments and thoughts.

Phil

 

[wildebus]

Something you might want to consider (maybe St3v3 could comment, agree, disagree, etc) as this line is feeding an outside socket, is rather than a standard MCB in the Consumer unit, use an RCBO, which will give you a dedicated RCD function as well, plus a dual pole protection to the socket.
Just a thought.

 

[Ardachaidh]

When we bought the leaf 4 years ago there was a scheme by which we got a dedicated 7kw Type 2 tethered charging unit for free Fitted by Chargemaster. It works fine, although we tend to use the 13amp plug when the sun is shining as then the pv panels on the house will supply most of the electricity.

I was looking at the faqs from Chargemaster ”how much will it cost to charge my car?”. When they published in 2017 they said leccy cost around 11p a unit….if only!!

 

[tonybvi]

When we bought the leaf 4 years ago there was a scheme by which we got a dedicated 7kw Type 2 tethered charging unit for free Fitted by Chargemaster. It works fine, although we tend to use the 13amp plug when the sun is shining as then the pv panels on the house will supply most of the electricity.

I was looking at the faqs from Chargemaster ”how much will it cost to charge my car?”. When they published in 2017 they said leccy cost around 11p a unit….if only!!

I charge my EV overnight at 4.5p (fixed until May 2024)!!!

 

[trevskoda]

If I had a suitable meter I would do so, however I don't, but now I have fitted the new socket and plug everything is running ice cold .

In the end, I fitted a 32 amp socket and plug from MK, however the entire shooting match is protected by a 10amp trip switch on the individual circuit from the circuit board, I also fitted a 1 mtr. earthing spike connected to the socket with a 5mm multi strand cable and the socket also has the standard house ring main earth as well.

Phil

Earthing spikes enable rcd trips, should be a negative earth link from what I read on the tinternet.

 

[St3v3]

Something you might want to consider (maybe St3v3 could comment, agree, disagree, etc) as this line is feeding an outside socket, is rather than a standard MCB in the Consumer unit, use an RCBO, which will give you a dedicated RCD function as well, plus a dual pole protection to the socket.
Just a thought.

Absolutely should be an RCD somewhere in the feed to it.

The MCB may be fed as is from an RCD, which is electrically ok.

As always, you really want sparky to look it over and suggest options...

RCBO's on all circuits is best. Regs have changed again, AFDD's are now required on final ring circuits.

 

[CriftinsCampers]

I am a bit surprised anyone would use a granny charger regularly, mines been use perhaps twice if that!
The problem apart from the risk of overheating especially when using worn mains sockets is efficiency.

The obc in the car has to convert 230v AC into typically 400v DC.
There is an overhead when doing that proportional to the rating of the supply being used That overhead is money down the drain.

Charging my Kia Soul via my granny charger is only 67% efficient, using 16A evse increases that to around 77% and a 32A evse gets it up into the low 90s iirc.

It is well worth using some of the popular apps to check the obc efficiency, for my Soul pids were available to allow info to be viewed using Torque pro.

So yes although ev charge points are stupidly expensive for a box that only needs to contains a couple of contactors and some resistors to tell the obc what the available current is they are more efficient in use and would pay for themselves in a few decades

Fortunately mine was £80 from eBay!

 

[wildebus]

I am a bit surprised anyone would use a granny charger regularly, mines been use perhaps twice if that!
The problem apart from the risk of overheating especially when using worn mains sockets is efficiency.

The obc in the car has to convert 230v AC into typically 400v DC.
There is an overhead when doing that proportional to the rating of the supply being used That overhead is money down the drain.

Charging my Kia Soul via my granny charger is only 67% efficient, using 16A evse increases that to around 77% and a 32A evse gets it up into the low 90s iirc.

It is well worth using some of the popular apps to check the obc efficiency, for my Soul pids were available to allow info to be viewed using Torque pro.

So yes although ev charge points are stupidly expensive for a box that only needs to contains a couple of contactors and some resistors to tell the obc what the available current is they are more efficient in use and would pay for themselves in a few decades

Fortunately mine was £80 from eBay!

what's a "granny charger"?

Update: looked it up. What a silly name there that is used. I suppose every thing needs its own cliquie names for things

Not understanding something here, but I've not looked into Electric cars in any details ....
Why does having a circuit that runs on a higher current result in greater efficiency? Yes, it will be faster so TIME efficiency is improved, but why will it use less power (ENERGY efficiency) from start to finish running at 32A than it does at 16A and that is does at 10A if the voltage supply at all of these is the same 240V AC?
I am clearly missing some fundemental here

 

[CriftinsCampers]

@wildebus it’s down to time to charge versus charge into the actual battery, the obc almost certainly will have a fairly constant overhead irrespective of the charge current. Just the same as the inverters in our vans do, they may vary from make to make obviously but afaik nothing is going to be 100% efficient

So the faster you can charge I.e at a higher current the less time spent losing power to that overhead.

So for example going to extremes if obc was only 50% efficient on a granny charger (which typically runs at around 10A) then I would end up lobbing in 50kw to get 25kw into the HV battery.

Or put it another way if your 230v pure sine wave inverter draws 1A on standby and you then add a 1A AC load then your total draw is 2A and effectively the entire circuit is losing 50% of the power consumed just to the inverter.

If you add a 9A AC load then the inverter overhead is only 10% of the total.

Fyi when using a rapid charger such as found in most pubic charging locations then the connection is dc to dc the obc is not in the loop.

 

[Ardachaidh]

You may be right although I couldn’t find any academic research on efficiency.

But it depends on how much you are paying for the electricity. If I can charge at home when the pv panels are providing then I’d be stupid to use a charger rated higher than my pv panels. Or to dash into town to plug into the chademo.

 

[trevskoda]

Absolutely should be an RCD somewhere in the feed to it.

The MCB may be fed as is from an RCD, which is electrically ok.

As always, you really want sparky to look it over and suggest options...

RCBO's on all circuits is best. Regs have changed again, AFDD's are now required on final ring circuits.

What the fook is the AFDDs.

 

[CriftinsCampers]

Yes if using the ev battery as a dump load for excess solar then time to charge and efficiency isn’t that relevant.
I don’t have a zappi so need to maximise efficiency.

Trying to find info on obc efficiency isn’t easy they tend to hide all that from consumers.

Obviously it relatively easy to test diy with a current clamp type monitor but a bit of a faff.

 

[wildebus]

Well, the main thing I have learnt from this thread is that people with electric cars LOVE acronyms.....

Granny Chargers, OBC, Zappi, evse, pids, ....


All double-dutch for anyone who doesn't have an e-car.

 

[wildebus]

What the fook is the AFDDs.

Arc Fault Detection Devices (AFDD)

Arcs are visible plasma discharges caused by electrical current passing through a normally nonconductive medium, such as air. This is caused when the electrical current ionizes gases in the air, temperatures created by arcing can exceed 6000 °C. These temperatures are sufficient to start a fire.

electrical.theiet.org

( I had to look it up as well)

 

[CriftinsCampers]

Well, the main thing I have learnt from this thread is that people with electric cars LOVE acronyms.....

Granny Chargers, OBC, Zappi, evse, pids, ....


All double-dutch for anyone who doesn't have an e-car.

OBD-II PIDs (On-board diagnostics Parameter IDs)
Were being used for car diagnostics long before electrifried cars trundled along.

Currently I have VCDS plugged in to my Crafter as I am getting an intermittent MIL on and I am monitoring the PIDs for the Nox sensor to see if I have an SCR problem.

It might be a blocked AdBlue injector but more likely it will be the Nox sensor itself (because that is probably going to be the most expensive part).

HTH...........