EV charging point for my car..... melting the 3 pin plugs!

[wildebus]

Ah, OBD! not OBC. I am familiar with OBD ...

 

[Millie Master]

For those who don't know, a 2017 BMW 225XE only has a 7.5kwh battery, it also has a turbocharged 3 cylinder Cooper S under the bonnet which pushes out some 190 bhp (later versions of this model had a slightly increased battery size of 10 kwh). As and when called on, the combined power is some 225bhp

My energy supplier is Octopus who have a special tarriff specifically for EV cars called Octopus GO, which gives a window between 0030 hrs to 0430 hrs during which time the standard supplied 3 pin charger can always achieve 100% battery capacity, our current charges for this are only 7.14p per kwh, we also make use of this low rate to always run our washing machine and dish washer.

This car despite being able to accelerate to 60mph in less than 7 secs. and on to a top speed well in excess of 100mph, however that isn't why I bought it, instead we almost always drive in the Eco-Pro mode and on average we are achieving close on 100 mpg over the past 6+ months added to which are the minimal electricity costs!

We are retired and almost never go to anywhere where there might be an EV point and even if we did, I would have no interest in using the facility.

If when on a long journey where of course the battery only range is a quite poor 22 miles, if I then switch the car into one of the many other driving modes the battery can go from 10% to 100% in only 25 miles of normal driving, in a word it is BRILLIANT

 

[wildebus]

An electric car would suit me down to the ground. Typical journey is between 7 and 11 miles (round trip) and even one with a low range like that BMW would be fine - the ideal scenario for going electric.
But the purchase cost of an electric car makes it totally unviable due to the low miles done. How could I justify spending many many thousands extra replacing a car that costs me maybe a tank of fuel every month or so?
It's a chicken & egg situation.

 

[CriftinsCampers]

Ah, OBD! not OBC. I am familiar with OBD ...

In the context of this thread OBC ="Onboard Charger" it is an AC to DC converter that the Granny or 16/32A fast(er) chargers are connected to via the charging socket.
OBD is as you suspect, good old OBD

 

[Millie Master]

An electric car would suit me down to the ground. Typical journey is between 7 and 11 miles (round trip) and even one with a low range like that BMW would be fine - the ideal scenario for going electric.
But the purchase cost of an electric car makes it totally unviable due to the low miles done. How could I justify spending many many thousands extra replacing a car that costs me maybe a tank of fuel every month or so?
It's a chicken & egg situation.

And that Dave is exactly why I only ever buy exceptionally low mileage cars that are normally 5 or so years old. This Beemer of ours cost a mere fraction of the new price and yet had only done 8,000 miles

 

[wildebus]

And that Dave is exactly why I only ever buy exceptionally low mileage cars that are normally 5 or so years old. This Beemer of ours cost a mere fraction of the new price and yet had only done 8,000 miles

only thing ... BMWs are so overpriced (IMO), a fraction of the new price is still blooming expensive probably
And repair costs are still in the BMW orbit.
I'll still pass

 

[Geek]

I realise that this discussion has drifted off-topic a little, but some of the suggestions in it are dangerous, particularly if taken out of context.

A standard 13A plug and socket is supposed to be good to carry a load of 13A (well, who'd have guessed?) but to give a margin of safety, the "granny" charger cables are set to only run at 10A.

A few decades ago, 10A was not a huge load. People ran kettles, washing machines, heaters and all sorts. Now electricity costs so much, and electrical items tend to be more frugal, so it's only kettles that pull that sort of power, and that's not for long. As a result, people get away with fitting poor quality sockets and plugs, and nothing bad seems to happen.

Along comes an EV charger, taking the full 10A for many hours at a time. (My neighbours had a car that couldn't get to full charge in 18 hours using one). The connection between the plug and the socket relies on friction to clean corrosion off the metal contact surfaces, and on springs to hold them together tightly. If a bit of heat builds up, the springs lose their temper and grip less well, so more heat builds up. One way to help prevent this is to unplug and replug the connection from time to time.

The suggestion of fitting a 16A blue hookup connector instead of a 13A plug is scary. Those don't have a fuse in them. Any fault will probably draw the full breaker trip current for that ring. Probably over 32A.

Most houses are wired with their earth connected to the company earth, which is in turn connected to the neutral supply cable. This may or may not be at anything like the actual potential of the ground outside. Indoors you are protected by "protective multiple earthing" which holds the structure of the house at the supply earth voltage.

Plug a car in that is standing outside, in a puddle, on the actual ground, and if it is connected to the earth from the incoming mains supply, it could be at an unsafe voltage relative to someone nearby who happens to touch it. And that's without any fault being present!

An EV charger should have its earth connected to an actual earth connection (sparks call it TN) and not to the earth of the house wiring.
Of course, that's not possible with a "granny lead" which has to be into a normal socket. OK, any socket used for such a task should be connected through an RCD, but how many grannies know how to check that?

Basically, if you get an EV, get a proper EV charger fitted properly. Only use the granny lead when visiting granny.

 

[wildebus]

I realise that this discussion has drifted off-topic a little, but some of the suggestions in it are dangerous, particularly if taken out of context.

A standard 13A plug and socket is supposed to be good to carry a load of 13A (well, who'd have guessed?) but to give a margin of safety, the "granny" charger cables are set to only run at 10A.

A few decades ago, 10A was not a huge load. People ran kettles, washing machines, heaters and all sorts. Now electricity costs so much, and electrical items tend to be more frugal, so it's only kettles that pull that sort of power, and that's not for long. As a result, people get away with fitting poor quality sockets and plugs, and nothing bad seems to happen.

Along comes an EV charger, taking the full 10A for many hours at a time. (My neighbours had a car that couldn't get to full charge in 18 hours using one). The connection between the plug and the socket relies on friction to clean corrosion off the metal contact surfaces, and on springs to hold them together tightly. If a bit of heat builds up, the springs lose their temper and grip less well, so more heat builds up. One way to help prevent this is to unplug and replug the connection from time to time.

The suggestion of fitting a 16A blue hookup connector instead of a 13A plug is scary. Those don't have a fuse in them. Any fault will probably draw the full breaker trip current for that ring. Probably over 32A.

Most houses are wired with their earth connected to the company earth, which is in turn connected to the neutral supply cable. This may or may not be at anything like the actual potential of the ground outside. Indoors you are protected by "protective multiple earthing" which holds the structure of the house at the supply earth voltage.

Plug a car in that is standing outside, in a puddle, on the actual ground, and if it is connected to the earth from the incoming mains supply, it could be at an unsafe voltage relative to someone nearby who happens to touch it. And that's without any fault being present!

An EV charger should have its earth connected to an actual earth connection (sparks call it TN) and not to the earth of the house wiring.
Of course, that's not possible with a "granny lead" which has to be into a normal socket. OK, any socket used for such a task should be connected through an RCD, but how many grannies know how to check that?

Basically, if you get an EV, get a proper EV charger fitted properly. Only use the granny lead when visiting granny.

If my granny were still alive, she would be past the range of even the best electric car. Granny lead no good for visiting granny there.

Read the detail about how the 16A plug was fitted before calling it 'scary'

 

[Geek]

If my granny were still alive, she would be past the range of even the best electric car. Granny lead no good for visiting granny there.

Read the detail about how the 16A plug was fitted before calling it 'scary'

Oh I did. But that doesn't mean someone coming along later and reading it would notice.

 

[Wrighpm]

Oh I did. But that doesn't mean someone coming along later and reading it would notice.

Many points you make are very valid. However the 16A socket will definitely give a more stable electrical connection and resolve the issue in the post. I understood it was protected by a 10A breaker. Hence it should never get to the 32A you are concerned about. It would be sensible to have that 10A on a distribution that is RCD protected.
The point about the earth is well made. When I was a telephone engineer is was attending a fault in a BT telephone box. The box was cast iron and when I went to open the heavy door (it was raining) I got a belt off it! I thought I was imagining things and touched the box again - arrgh! So I got my meter from my van and discovered that the frame of the box was 190V AC!
The only AC in a telephone box is for the 5w fluorescent light. It turned out that the overhead powerline feeding the box was shorting to earth where it came into the box but not enough current to trip the sub-station as the telephone box had no good local low resistance earth.

 

[St3v3]

The suggestion of fitting a 16A blue hookup connector instead of a 13A plug is scary. Those don't have a fuse in them. Any fault will probably draw the full breaker trip current for that ring. Probably over 32A.

The very first post says it's on a 10A trip.

Earth problem is no different 16A to 13A socket. You'll probably find that the EV manufacturers have thought of the problem of people plugging them in to PME sockets - because that's what pretty much EVERYONE will do with the supplied 13A plug. I suspect the vehicle is fully isolated.

 

[DACS]

An electric car would suit me down to the ground. Typical journey is between 7 and 11 miles (round trip) and even one with a low range like that BMW would be fine - the ideal scenario for going electric.
But the purchase cost of an electric car makes it totally unviable due to the low miles done. How could I justify spending many many thousands extra replacing a car that costs me maybe a tank of fuel every month or so?
It's a chicken & egg situation.

With such short journeys you could consider the new Citroen Ami for about £8,000.

 

[wildebus]

With such short journeys you could consider the new Citroen Ami for about £8,000.

That is one fugly car!

Only trouble with a car with that range is when you DO want to do a longer trip, you are stuffed 19 out of 20 journeys are 11 mile round trip max, but what you do you do on the 1 in 20th? hiring a car negates the saving.
This is where a car like the Hybrid BMW that Milliemaster has would work very nicely - all-electric running on the 19 journeys and engine (petrol?) on the 20th.
But the upfront and service costs .... no thanks. I filled with petrol 2 weeks ago. Still on 7 bars out of 8, road tax is £30/year. Where are the real-world savings? (oh, and that 1 bar of use ... mostly coming back after filling in Edinbugh 50 miles away - the 46 mile Ami range would leave us stranded)

 

[Ardachaidh]

It’s not a car it’s a quadricycle with a top speed of 28mph. Perfect for commuting and would reduce congest. Although I would prefer to see more and better and cheaper public transport and more dedicated bike routes.

 

[Millie Master]

It’s not a car it’s a quadricycle with a top speed of 28mph. Perfect for commuting and would reduce congest. Although I would prefer to see more and better and cheaper public transport and more dedicated bike routes.

It is quite bonkers IMHO to have a vehicle on the public roads of the UK which can't even reach the normal 30 mph speed limits that are in place throughout the vast majority of the UK and as for the pitiful range of just 46 miles, then that would rule it out as any kind of practical vehicle for the very vast majority of commuters!

 

[Ardachaidh]

It is quite bonkers IMHO to have a vehicle on the public roads of the UK which can't even reach the normal 30 mph speed limits that are in place throughout the vast majority of the UK and as for the pitiful range of just 46 miles, then that would rule it out as any kind of practical vehicle for the very vast majority of commuters!

I take it that’s a ”no”, then.

 

[trevskoda]

That is one fugly car!

Only trouble with a car with that range is when you DO want to do a longer trip, you are stuffed 19 out of 20 journeys are 11 mile round trip max, but what you do you do on the 1 in 20th? hiring a car negates the saving.
This is where a car like the Hybrid BMW that Milliemaster has would work very nicely - all-electric running on the 19 journeys and engine (petrol?) on the 20th.
But the upfront and service costs .... no thanks. I filled with petrol 2 weeks ago. Still on 7 bars out of 8, road tax is £30/year. Where are the real-world savings? (oh, and that 1 bar of use ... mostly coming back after filling in Edinbugh 50 miles away - the 46 mile Ami range would leave us stranded)

Problem with hybrid cars is the silly exhausts oil filters and serving still has to be done, full electric or bust for me if someone lends me the money LOL.

 

[nabsim]

Problem with hybrid cars is the silly exhausts oil filters and serving still has to be done, full electric or bust for me if someone lends me the money LOL.

Yes but the one I am getting doesn’t need to be charged, engine does it so no different to my ice car except better mpg hopefully

 

[wildebus]

Yes but the one I am getting doesn’t need to be charged, engine does it so no different to my ice car except better mpg hopefully

I'm not convinced about the "self-charging" hybrids. You are using petrol (or diesel) to generate electricity to charge a battery which you then use to drive the wheels occasionally. I don't get how this is an improvement on overall economy (apart from a benefit of charging using regenerative braking to put power into that drive battery?).
I think the original Prius was a self-charging hybrid and that was very successful compared to the 'normal' cars of the time, so it clearly had something
Maybe in city/town driving is where the key benefit comes where you don't have an engine idling and doing very little in return for the fuel being burnt is where the electric bit of the petrol-electric is key and gives you better overall economy?

 

[nabsim]

I'm not convinced about the "self-charging" hybrids. You are using petrol (or diesel) to generate electricity to charge a battery which you then use to drive the wheels occasionally. I don't get how this is an improvement on overall economy (apart from a benefit of charging using regenerative braking to put power into that drive battery?).
I think the original Prius was a self-charging hybrid and that was very successful compared to the 'normal' cars of the time, so it clearly had something
Maybe in city/town driving is where the key benefit comes where you don't have an engine idling and doing very little in return for the fuel being burnt is where the electric bit of the petrol-electric is key and gives you better overall economy?

Think mine is more ice than anything. Not sure if it actually ever runs on battery power, think I looked a few years ago but have forgotten. Don’t really care, I will rarely be using it anyway but will see what Mrs thinks when she has it