My Roamer 460ah lithium battery performance

[jeffmossy]

I thought I would update the performance of my new Roamer 460ah lithium battery. We have been out in the van since 20th August, returning home on the 22nd September,and we have used the electric kettle about 6 times per day, electric toaster most days, air frier every day, microwave every day, Lorraine has used her 2600 Watt hair drier every other day plus a halogen hob ring quite a few times as well as charging phones, laptops and my drone batteries every day, we have had electric hook up a couple of times, but I have never had to switch the on board charger on, also we have travelled for about 15 hours in total, and I do have 525W solar panels, so with all that the battery has had thrown at it the unit has never dropped below 80% and the smart BMS has now began to condition the cells and the unit is sitting at 495ah when 100% full. I am over the moon with the battery, it was not cheap but I would never go back to lead acid again.

 

[broomeld]

Morning Jeffmossy.

I stumbled accross this post whilst researching the very battery upon failure of my 3 off lead acids.

If you don't mind me asking if you have only ever used 20% of its charge capacity could you of not got away with a single 100ah model and saved significantly in both cash and weight?

I ask as I ponder if 460ah is excessive for our application and worth the investment.

Regards

 

[Bouydog]

After talking to you about the battery at Stratford I have bought the 24v version of the same. Hopefully it will be here in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks for the recommendation

 

[wildebus]

Morning Jeffmossy.

I stumbled accross this post whilst researching the very battery upon failure of my 3 off lead acids.

If you don't mind me asking if you have only ever used 20% of its charge capacity could you of not got away with a single 100ah model and saved significantly in both cash and weight?

I ask as I ponder if 460ah is excessive for our application and worth the investment.

Regards

It is always tempting to get as much as possible, but it is a very valid point when people say they only use a small portion of the available power, to question if is there a need to have that much in the first place then? Is it like having a Ferrari to go do the shopping?*

I took a different approach and added Lithium (currently got 200Ah installed) but kept my Lead Acid batteries as well (300Ah). I can monitor my useage and generally speaking all the day to day use is from the Lithium, but occasionally the Lead Acid gets dipped into.
What this means is I have 500Ah of Batteries, but only 200Ah of it is expensive Lithium doing something, and the remaining 300Ah is the cheaper Lead (my 3 x 100Ah Lead Carbon batteries were less than one of my 100Ah Lithiums) is there as a backup for those occasions when more energy is needed (maybe a higher demand or maybe solar charging has been pants for a week?).

Personally I found this approach the ideal balance between capacity and cost, with the main possible downside being weight - you are still carrying around the weight of the Lead Acid batteries and as they are not used much day to day, they could be considered like ballast and impacting your available payload. I don't have a payload issue so it is not a problem for me, but could be for others.


One other aspect of the approach of maybe thinking a single 100Ah Lithium is ok as your demands are low ... If you have, or intend to get an inverter, depending on the size, the high current demand, even if used for just a minute, could be beyond the capabilty of a single smaller battery. You might need multiple batteries to counter that? I work on the principle with Lithium of no more than 1000W of inverter for each 100Ah Battery (and it has to be a battery with a decent BMS with a suitable current capability).



* I didn't have a Ferrari, but when I found I was only using my 200BHP Turbocharged 4WD Celica GT4 to go to the shops, it was time to sell and I bought a 1.4L Peugeot 306 instead

 

[jeffmossy]

It is always tempting to get as much as possible, but it is a very valid point when people say they only use a small portion of the available power, to question if is there a need to have that much in the first place then? Is it like having a Ferrari to go do the shopping?*

I took a different approach and added Lithium (currently got 200Ah installed) but kept my Lead Acid batteries as well (300Ah). I can monitor my useage and generally speaking all the day to day use is from the Lithium, but occasionally the Lead Acid gets dipped into.
What this means is I have 500Ah of Batteries, but only 200Ah of it is expensive Lithium doing something, and the remaining 300Ah is the cheaper Lead (my 3 x 100Ah Lead Carbon batteries were less than one of my 100Ah Lithiums) is there as a backup for those occasions when more energy is needed (maybe a higher demand or maybe solar charging has been pants for a week?).

Personally I found this approach the ideal balance between capacity and cost, with the main possible downside being weight - you are still carrying around the weight of the Lead Acid batteries and as they are not used much day to day, they could be considered like ballast and impacting your available payload. I don't have a payload issue so it is not a problem for me, but could be for others.


One other aspect of the approach of maybe thinking a single 100Ah Lithium is ok as your demands are low ... If you have, or intend to get an inverter, depending on the size, the high current demand, even if used for just a minute, could be beyond the capabilty of a single smaller battery. You might need multiple batteries to counter that? I work on the principle with Lithium of no more than 1000W of inverter for each 100Ah Battery (and it has to be a battery with a decent BMS with a suitable current capability).



* I didn't have a Ferrari, but when I found I was only using my 200BHP Turbocharged 4WD Celica GT4 to go to the shops, it was time to sell and I bought a 1.4L Peugeot 306 instead

Totally agree with you David. I dont normally use as much power as we have over the past 4 weeks, but this was a tester for when we get to Portugal early next year, I am trying to get away with using very little gas and going off the performance of my battery I can now go with the confidence that during the daytime I will be able to power my fridge freezer and other appliances when required (sunshine permitted), it is still a learning curve, but it is nice just to go and have a burn out in a Ferrari just to spoil yourself every now and then

 

[wildebus]

Totally agree with you David. I dont normally use as much power as we have over the past 4 weeks, but this was a tester for when we get to Portugal early next year, I am trying to get away with using very little gas and going off the performance of my battery I can now go with the confidence that during the daytime I will be able to power my fridge freezer and other appliances when required (sunshine permitted), it is still a learning curve, but it is nice just to go and have a burn out in a Ferrari just to spoil yourself every now and then

Makes total sense.
I know Rugbyken has saved a lot of gas by running the the fridge off the battery, backed up by solar and an extra Lithium Battery. It is also nice to have the extra capacity so you don't have to watch the battery clock and compromise how you camp


Ref the Ferrari .... I found the 200BHP GT4 was relegated to a shopping car (and so OTT for that) after I bought a Motorbike which was even more fun and faster than the car (after selling the bike, ended up buying another fast Coupé a couple of years later )

 

[SquirrellCook]

I went down a similar route, but with home assemble batteries. I made up two 200Ahr at 12 volts Lithium's to replace two T105 220Ahr 6 volt lead acid batteries. Although my usage habits haven't changed, I have noticed how fast they can recharge. Ideal when the days are getting shorter.
Due to paranoia, the batteries are in parallel each with their own BMS.
Unless you already have them, I can't see any point in using lead acid. Time will tell.

 

[GMLS]

I thought I would update the performance of my new Roamer 460ah lithium battery. We have been out in the van since 20th August, returning home on the 22nd September,and we have used the electric kettle about 6 times per day, electric toaster most days, air frier every day, microwave every day, Lorraine has used her 2600 Watt hair drier every other day plus a halogen hob ring quite a few times as well as charging phones, laptops and my drone batteries every day, we have had electric hook up a couple of times, but I have never had to switch the on board charger on, also we have travelled for about 15 hours in total, and I do have 525W solar panels, so with all that the battery has had thrown at it the unit has never dropped below 80% and the smart BMS has now began to condition the cells and the unit is sitting at 495ah when 100% full. I am over the moon with the battery, it was not cheap but I would never go back to lead acid again.

Thats for the information. Roamer are on my list when the new van finally arrives. They seem to have the longest warranty for not much if any of a premium over similar quality batteries. I think 200ah or a little more will cover me nicely.

 

[broomeld]

Thanks all for the advice, i am convinced it is a worth while investment long term but just to decide between 300 or 460ah...
Despite having 200ah previous we never had the reserve power i initially calculated, if parked up with bad weather for more than a day we would struggle.

 

[DaveAdele]

Hi Jeff, as you know I've just fitted the same battery two weeks ago, I have also just added two victron B2B. Currently parked up (day 2) my battery is at 77%. Weather is awful today so lots of brews and no solar. My aim over the next few days is use the batteries to their max. I have to remind myself that even if I run the batteries down 50% I have still more in reserve than my last two batteries I had fitted. I like the idea that even on days when you are not harvesting any solar you got some amps in reserve, I also like the idea of using less gas, more cooking with electric

 

[jeffmossy]

Hi Jeff, as you know I've just fitted the same battery two weeks ago, I have also just added two victron B2B. Currently parked up (day 2) my battery is at 77%. Weather is awful today so lots of brews and no solar. My aim over the next few days is use the batteries to their max. I have to remind myself that even if I run the batteries down 50% I have still more in reserve than my last two batteries I had fitted. I like the idea that even on days when you are not harvesting any solar you got some amps in reserve, I also like the idea of using less gas, more cooking with electric

Well done Dave, and yes it is amazing how much power you have at your disposal, welcome to the word of using virtually no gas, btw sounds like your set up is awesome, enjoy the energy and it will keep Adele happy also.

 

[Mr and Mrs Tupcox]

I sent an email yesterday to roamer batteries.
Asking if the 460 ah was compatible with the sagent ec500 control system and there 20amp mains charger.
Also telling then I would be fitting a b2b 30amp and 600w solar and a victron solar regulator mppt.
There reply.



So looks like we good to change over to the big boy.

 

[jeffmossy]

I sent an email yesterday to roamer batteries.
Asking if the 460 ah was compatible with the sagent ec500 control system and there 20amp mains charger.
Also telling then I would be fitting a b2b 30amp and 600w solar and a victron solar regulator mppt.
There reply.

So looks like we good to over to the big boy.

You will have a total new ball game with all the energy you will have at your disposal, and when you go to Europe you probably won't have to bother with Ehu or using too much gas any more. Enjoy

 

[wildebus]

I sent an email yesterday to roamer batteries.
Asking if the 460 ah was compatible with the sagent ec500 control system and there 20amp mains charger.
Also telling then I would be fitting a b2b 30amp and 600w solar and a victron solar regulator mppt.
There reply.

View attachment 64566

So looks like we good to change over to the big boy.

I would be VERY wary about using the sargent mains charger on a 460Ah Lithium Battery.
It is nothing to do with having the right profile for a particular type of battery, but the mismatch of capabilities.

The Sargent Charger has a maximum rating of 25A - and the battery gets whatever is available after the habitation 12V loads are taken away - so if you have say a TV on, a couple of phones charging and some lights on, that 25A may end up with just 15A going to the battery during that period.
This means that:
a) your recharging will be even slower than the 25A rating may suggest and
b) the charger will be on - and on at 100% full until the battery is full. Lithium Batteries have a great benefit in that they recharge quickly, and the reason they recharge quickly is they will take all the charger can deliver until they are full. So depending on the state of charge of the Battery when you plug into EHU, you could be running that Sargent charger for well over 24 Hours non-stop. They are not designed for that kind of duty cycle and I would expect it at the very least to overheat and either cut out or throttle back significantly, and at worst fail permanently, which will leave you with a rather expensive repair.
Sargents guidence for the EC500 is that is it suitable for a Leisure Battery of between 75Ah and 120Ah capacity. Asking it to charge a battery nearly 4 times larger than the recommended maximum and able to suck up much more current is asking for trouble.

 

[jeffmossy]

I would be VERY wary about using the sargent mains charger on a 460Ah Lithium Battery.
It is nothing to do with having the right profile for a particular type of battery, but the mismatch of capabilities.

The Sargent Charger has a maximum rating of 25A - and the battery gets whatever is available after the habitation 12V loads are taken away - so if you have say a TV on, a couple of phones charging and some lights on, that 25A may end up with just 15A going to the battery during that period.
This means that:
a) your recharging will be even slower than the 25A rating may suggest and
b) the charger will be on - and on at 100% full until the battery is full. Lithium Batteries have a great benefit in that they recharge quickly, and the reason they recharge quickly is they will take all the charger can deliver until they are full. So depending on the state of charge of the Battery when you plug into EHU, you could be running that Sargent charger for well over 24 Hours non-stop. They are not designed for that kind of duty cycle and I would expect it at the very least to overheat and either cut out or throttle back significantly, and at worst fail permanently, which will leave you with a rather expensive repair.
Sargents guidence for the EC500 is that is it suitable for a Leisure Battery of between 75Ah and 120Ah capacity. Asking it to charge a battery nearly 4 times larger than the recommended maximum and able to suck up much more current is asking for trouble.

One of the reasons why I installed a 60ah charger wired direct to the roamer battery, I am still using the sargent charger but connected to the vehicle battery only, but having said that since I have had my roamer battery installed I have NEVER had to use the on board chargers as up to now my solar panels have kept my battery topped up, the next few months will be the tester but as I say once in Europe during winter months all should be fine then return here for the summer months so my plan is never to have to use a AC charger again. I will keep you posted

 

[wildebus]

One of the reasons why I installed a 60ah charger wired direct to the roamer battery, I am still using the sargent charger but connected to the vehicle battery only, but having said that since I have had my roamer battery installed I have NEVER had to use the on board chargers as up to now my solar panels have kept my battery topped up, the next few months will be the tester but as I say once in Europe during winter months all should be fine then return here for the summer months so my plan is never to have to use a AC charger again. I will keep you posted

A wise precaution even if you never intend to hookup as you never know!

It depends on the Sargent system installed a little, but you can use its built-in charger successfully without rewiring anything on the sargent AND with a massive battery bank
An additional charger will be fitted direct to the Leisure Battery (in your case, a 60A charger; in mine, I fitted a Multiplus with a 70A charger).
What can then be done with the Sargent system is simply to plug into EHU, select the Vehicle Battery in the Sargent Control Panel (this directs all the Sargent functions to be driven by the Starter Battery instead of the Leisure Battery) and then if the Mains Charger built into the Sargent PDU is turned on, it will charge the Starter and not the Leisure Battery and still stay well within any limits.

Just a little comment to anyone who has these systems and has added a seperate Charger direct to the Leisure Battery.

 

[Mr and Mrs Tupcox]

I would be VERY wary about using the sargent mains charger on a 460Ah Lithium Battery.
It is nothing to do with having the right profile for a particular type of battery, but the mismatch of capabilities.

The Sargent Charger has a maximum rating of 25A - and the battery gets whatever is available after the habitation 12V loads are taken away - so if you have say a TV on, a couple of phones charging and some lights on, that 25A may end up with just 15A going to the battery during that period.
This means that:
a) your recharging will be even slower than the 25A rating may suggest and
b) the charger will be on - and on at 100% full until the battery is full. Lithium Batteries have a great benefit in that they recharge quickly, and the reason they recharge quickly is they will take all the charger can deliver until they are full. So depending on the state of charge of the Battery when you plug into EHU, you could be running that Sargent charger for well over 24 Hours non-stop. They are not designed for that kind of duty cycle and I would expect it at the very least to overheat and either cut out or throttle back significantly, and at worst fail permanently, which will leave you with a rather expensive repair.
Sargents guidence for the EC500 is that is it suitable for a Leisure Battery of between 75Ah and 120Ah capacity. Asking it to charge a battery nearly 4 times larger than the recommended maximum and able to suck up much more current is asking for trouble.

Thanks wildebus .
I will possible never be on hook up .
If I was I would switch off the sargent charger off.
I am still just searching for the kit I want at this point .

 

[wildebus]

Thanks wildebus .
I will possible never be on hook up .
If I was I would switch off the sargent charger off.
I am still just searching for the kit I want at this point .

a good idea (but you did suggest you would use the charger).
What could be a better idea is if you switched the control panel to Vehicle and left the charger on. Then if you had hookup, you could still benefit from it by using the charger to run the 12V via the Starter Battery and the solar etc will carry on charging the Leisure Battery.

 

[Deleted member 7839]

We fitted a 300ah from Roamer last October and up to now never needed to use the new Victron 30amp mains charger our 30amp B2B and 525w of solar seems to keep us going but not done any long winter stays as yet.

 

[Mr and Mrs Tupcox]

Missed the boat with the beast they have taken the discount of then.
Now £1950..
Think again Mr tupcox.