Pros and cons of converting heating to LPG and solar

[in h]

Yes they use a bit more power (especially if temp controls aren't set efficiently)
No need for them to be overly noisy IF installed correctly
Fuel consumption wise they may seem to be more expensive to run on paper BUT from my own personal real world experience in use diesel is both cheaper to run and less pfaff than chasing round finding bulk lpg outlets for the refillable bottles....

Diesel costs twice as much as LPG. You top up for cooking anyway. Sorry, but I still see no good reason to use diesel for heating if you have gas on board. Different if there's no gas supply, of course

 

[mistericeman]

I top up less with diesel heating.... And frankly if one would fit the gas cooker would be coming out and a diesel one go in.
I've had both gas and diesel heating and have always found the diesel cheaper to run in the real world.....
Soon as the weather warms ill be fitting a eberspacher to the motorhome as I did to the campervan and the carver gas fire can sit there redundant....

 

[GarethHowell]

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody.
I reckon I'll go with an underslung plus a standby calor. It does mean I can't get full use of the gas locker, but at least I'll only need to have 1 bottle in there instead of 2.

 

[Exwindsurfer]

When I bought my motorhome, it had an underslung tank and an 11 kg bottle in the locker. Of course I never used the bottle, so eventually I took it out. Turns out it was empty anyway.
Although the tank has a gauge, it's far from convenient, so I added a display inside. I simply top up whenever I see gas cheap, or at the start of a trip to somewhere remote. The tank easily lasts a month in winter, two months in summer. I'd never want the faff of having to switch cylinders over.

I’ll second that fitted a 38ltr underslung tank 7 years ago and never ever ran out.

 

[Exwindsurfer]

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody.
I reckon I'll go with an underslung plus a standby calor. It does mean I can't get full use of the gas locker, but at least I'll only need to have 1 bottle in there instead of 2.

I wouldn’t bother carrying a spare bottle you won’t need it.

 

[wfdTamar]

If you have some means of measuring how empty the underslung is you'll have plenty of notice to find a filling station, that way you can not worry about a Calor backup. I have an 11kg Gaslow and 6kg Calor backup and in 4 months only used the Calor once in central France where there weren't a lot of LPG stations.

 

[Hellfire]

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody.
I reckon I'll go with an underslung plus a standby calor. It does mean I can't get full use of the gas locker, but at least I'll only need to have 1 bottle in there instead of 2.

Why don’t you just fit a Gaslow system. You can then have two bottles with automatic changeover. Top up whenever you like.

 

[wfdTamar]

Well really that's what he's talking about - an underslung tank is pretty much the same as a Gaslow except not in the gas locker. With a big underslung I don't reckon you'd even need a backup, which frees up the gas locker for storage. I wish I'd done it as I don't have a lot of external locker space.

 

[Exwindsurfer]

I put the under slug tank on so it wouldn’t take any space in the van + I’ve a gauge fitted in the wardrobe to keep an eye on the contents and it’s prity good.

 

[in h]

Why don’t you just fit a Gaslow system. You can then have two bottles with automatic changeover. Top up whenever you like.

A tank is simpler, and gives you storage space in what used to be the gas locker. The advantage of gaslow is that you can keep it if you change vans. But refillable gas is a good sales feature.

 

[Deleted member 409]

Hi All
I am just in the process of changing to a just-purchased 2014 Auto-Cruise Rhythm.

We plan to spend quite a bit of time off-grid and wild camping so there are a couple of things I am considering changing:
1. change to an underslung LPG for heating/cooking instead of Calor
2. Adding a solar panel to keep the battery topped up.

Is there anything specific I should be taking into consideration?

Gareth

Work out your theoretical electrical consumption (Watts/Amps) say, 100A/Hr then double the battery bank capacity and match the Solar output needed to keep that topped up. Buy the biggest panel/s you can afford.
As for your LPG tank, a 30l tank will only hold 24l (80%) before the auto fill overfill vlv shuts off when filling.
The weight of 24l of Propane is 12.25 Kg...
Consumption:
A Propex HS2000 will you give you more than 80hrs run constantly on 12.25Kg of Propane (13kg propane: 91.5 hours )

 

[Deleted member 409]

Changing to a gas tank instead of buying refills for Calor makes sense if you have somewhere local you can fill up and/or aren't planning on your off-grid and wild camping trips involving northern Scotland or other sparsely populated areas like mid Wales, where there are no places you can get pumped LPG.

A handy app to illustrate your comment https://www.filllpg.co.uk/?page=lpg.php

 

[in h]

Work out your theoretical electrical consumption (Watts/Amps) say, 100A/Hr then double the battery bank capacity and match the Solar output needed to keep that topped up. Buy the biggest panel/s you can afford.
As for your LPG tank, a 30l tank will only hold 24l (80%) before the auto fill overfill vlv shuts off when filling.
The weight of 24l of Propane is 12.25 Kg...
Consumption:
A Propex HS2000 will you give you more than 80hrs run constantly on 12.25Kg of Propane (13kg propane: 91.5 hours )

You can fill a post with numbers, but it is quite important to get the right numbers. I don't know the efficiency of a propex, but I guess it's probably almost as high as the 99% efficiency of a gas Truma. So that really isn't the factor to compare.
The relevant comparison is the energy, weight and cost of the fuels.
Diesel is around 11.6KWh per KG. It's about 745 grammes per litre and about £1.30 per litre. So £1.30 gets you about 8.64 KWh of power. About 15p per KWh.
LPG is around 13.7KWh per Kg, 500 grammes per litre, 55p per litre. So 55p gets you 6.85 KWh of power. About 8p per KWh.

 

[in h]

A handy app to illustrate your comment https://www.filllpg.co.uk/?page=lpg.php

A good app, and even better if people use it and update or confirm the prices they see. It's really easy to do, and very helpful.

 

[Lancaster-Cal]

My friends PVC has diesel heating and she absolutely hates it. She finds it far too noisy and it has to be switched off at night as she can’t sleep because of the noise! I know some will say it is faulty or badly installed but it was a brand new van and has had numerous people look at it. One expert said he wouldn’t have fitted the particular unit in a van of her size - 5.4 metres.
It’s down to individual choice obviously but just be careful where the heater is fitted - not too close to your head if you are a light sleeper!!

 

[Trotter]

We hear of lpg being increasingly unavailable in some parts of the country. Morrisons elf n safety bulletins being misunderstood by forecourt personal. Therefore, a refillable cylinder is still the better, cheaper option, in the long run. A second calor bottle, as a back up, should be considered. Belt and braces.
I’ve taken into account the fact that when I can no longer heat the van, I’ll be the only one who will suffer. Been there, done that, didn’t need a t shirt. Wanted the thickest fleece in the van. Stay lucky

 

[in h]

We hear of lpg being increasingly unavailable in some parts of the country. Morrisons elf n safety bulletins being misunderstood by forecourt personal. Therefore, a refillable cylinder is still the better, cheaper option, in the long run. A second calor bottle, as a back up, should be considered. Belt and braces.
I’ve taken into account the fact that when I can no longer heat the van, I’ll be the only one who will suffer. Been there, done that, didn’t need a t shirt. Wanted the thickest fleece in the van. Stay lucky

I see no sign of LPG becoming unavailable anywhere, but my goodness some places charge a lot for it.
You can buy it for 49.5p per litre in the West Midlands, but there are places on the UK mainland selling the same stuff for about 79p. So they are making an extra 30p per litre on top of what it costs.
OK, some of that will be higher delivery costs to remote locations, but much of it is pure profit: a profit they will want to carry on making!
I also suspect that we'll see a resurgence of LPG powered cars when petrol and diesel is phased out. Whether that will be internal combustion engines or LPG powered fuel cells I'm not sure, but it seems likely that LPG will take up the slack, doing jobs that EVs simply can't do.

 

[Trotter]

Shell appear to be swapping out lpg for fast charge electric points.
Profit is an important part of capitalism.
I hope you’re right about the resurgence of lpg powered vehicles. Who knows. Electric seems to be the flavour of the month, as far as vehicles are concerned. Gas could well be the next. Fingers crossed then.

I seem to have woken up this morning with my cynical head on.

 

[nabsim]

No mention of how practicality depends on heating model I notice. I don’t know what model the Truma heatingin Charlies Hymer was but he could get through a 13Kg bottle of gas in two and a half days in winter. Yes this is probably excessive, Karen liked it very warm inside and it was an 8.5mtr van but it’s still a factor.
I love my diesel heating but ideally I would like both, especially if I had one of those old carver fires you used to get in caravan years ago. Problem with that is wall space

 

[in h]

No mention of how practicality depends on heating model I notice. I don’t know what model the Truma heatingin Charlies Hymer was but he could get through a 13Kg bottle of gas in two and a half days in winter. Yes this is probably excessive, Karen liked it very warm inside and it was an 8.5mtr van but it’s still a factor.
I love my diesel heating but ideally I would like both, especially if I had one of those old carver fires you used to get in caravan years ago. Problem with that is wall space

Running at the full 6KW power, a Truma Combi can use half a kilogramme of gas in an hour. So if it was full on, it'd use a 13Kg bottle in just over one day. The same amount of heating from diesel would have taken about 20 litres from the fuel tank.
If you need that much heating in a motorhome, there is something wrong