Technical help required / Rear wheel came off after dealer service!

[NorthernLoop]

Hello,

I took my camper in for the 2nd service and I asked them to check the discs & pads before the MOT. Van has aftermarket alloys which I fitted 2 years ago and I have done 16,000 ish miles on them.

24 hours after the dealer had the wheels off I was driving home, and noticed something odd with the rear. I thought I was on the rumble strips of the road. This went away as I was then driving through 30mph zone. After leaving the 30mph I enter National Speed limit, started to increase speed when I then looked at my rear nearside wheel which was then pointing 45 degrees away from the van!

I managed to stop before the wheel was fully disconnected.

Behind the wheel hub cap of the Alloys, 4 of the bolts were fully loose and the locking wheel nut was snapped and still in the hub.

The dealer has now started to drag their feet and said the wheels were torqued correctly (180mn) which is what I think I torqued them to when I installed them

Note the centre of the hub has snapped and this was stuck inside the alloy.

Damage to the van is wheel hub/alloy and wheel arch (luton camper)

Other than the dealer either over-torquing or under, what could have caused this?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Dealer to blame IMHO they were the last ones to touch the van, possibly they let an apprentice put the wheels back on and didn't check, whatever, if there was a fault before they started the job they should have told you if not then they caused the fault unless they can prove faulty parts.

 

[NorthernLoop]

Dealer to blame IMHO they were the last ones to touch the van, possibly they let an apprentice put the wheels back on and didn't check, whatever, if there was a fault before they started the job they should have told you if not then they caused the fault unless they can prove faulty parts.

They are looking to investigate the wheel hub to say that has failed which caused the wheel to vibrate and then come off.

Smells very fishy to blame a part 24 hours after they had the wheels off!

 

[Pudsey Bear]

The only other thing could be the wrong nuts on the wheel, sometimes Ally wheel nuts are different to the steel wheel ones, and I assume possibly a different torque setting.

 

[saxonborg]

Perhaps if the studs/bolts were lubricated then they would have been stretched in trying to achieve the correct torque hence leading to early failure.

 

[NorthernLoop]

The only other thing could be the wrong nuts on the wheel, sometimes Ally wheel nuts are different to the steel wheel ones, and I assume possibly a different torque setting.

Fiat alloys are spec'd to 180 and these aftermarket are the same. Though the dealer didn't question the specs and I had a photo of the aftermarket to show them if they did ask, I forgot to double check with them.

 

[NorthernLoop]

Perhaps if the studs/bolts were lubricated then they would have been stretched in trying to achieve the correct torque hence leading to early failure.

The service manager reviewed the CCTV and reported they did everything to spec.

Wheel nuts were installed by hand, and then tightened by tools. Dropped to the floor and then torqued.

The wheel still fell off! Either over or under torqued!

 

[NorthernLoop]

They also threw out there aren't enough threads on the bolt. Fiat bolts have 11 threads but these only had 7 threads.

Again these nuts have been on for 2 years/16,000 miles.

All 5 nuts were loose behind the centre cap and you can see the locking nut had snapped.



I got my steel nuts out the garage and I can only really see 7-8 threads but this is for steel wheels.

 

[Scotia]

The hub centre will knock out of the alloy and the fit back into the hub.

 

[NorthernLoop]

The hub centre will knock out of the alloy and the fit back into the hub.

The hub had dropped by 2mm so none of the bolts would align back up to even fit the spare. I had to get recovered on a dolly.

That part was inside the alloy, likely snapped as the wheel rotated and one wheel nut is still attached?

I can't explain why the hub / wheel nuts didn't align after though, not that technical on hubs

 

[nabsim]

They also threw out there aren't enough threads on the bolt. Fiat bolts have 11 threads but these only had 7 threads.

Again these nuts have been on for 2 years/16,000 miles.

All 5 nuts were loose behind the centre cap and you can see the locking nut had snapped.

View attachment 75686

I got my steel nuts out the garage and I can only really see 7-8 threads but this is for steel wheels.

View attachment 75687

From what you are saying here it had steel wheel bolts fitted not the correct alloy wheel bolts. Or am I reading it wrong?

I know on my Merc the alloy wheel bolts are longer to allow for the extra thickness, I have to carry a set of shorter steel wheel bolts for my spare

 

[Scotia]

The section shown in the red square is a push fit into the hub or is on my hub.

 

[AlyJay]

Check your other wheels to see if they have left any more loose. Tell them you need proof and want to view the cctv.

 

[NorthernLoop]

From what you are saying here it had steel wheel bolts fitted not the correct alloy wheel bolts. Or am I reading it wrong?

I know on my Merc the alloy wheel bolts are longer to allow for the extra thickness, I have to carry a set of shorter steel wheel bolts for my spare

The correct nuts were attached but I was just trying to highlight the steel wheel nuts had the same amount of threads, not a apples to apples as steel vs alloy.

The section shown in the red square is a push fit into the hub or is on my hub.

Yup no load on that, just trying to think what part of the hub they will report has failed and thus they can't repair it?

This is the centre to align the wheel and this has snapped off when the wheel disconnected

Check your other wheels to see if they have left any more loose. Tell them you need proof and want to view the cctv.

Van is still at the dealer, 2 weeks now and minimal communication from them! I have already spoken to my insurance company and I have the legal options if they fail to repair the van

 

[RichardHelen262]

It sounds like they. Haven’t tightened them enough, did they show you the cctv footage of. Them torquing the wheel studs ?

 

[NorthernLoop]

It sounds like they. Haven’t tightened them enough, did they show you the cctv footage of. Them torquing the wheel studs ?

No, they haven't come forward with any proof yet, they are doing a "independent inspection" on the wheel hub.

 

[AlyJay]

No, they haven't come forward with any proof yet, they are doing a "independent inspection" on the wheel hub.

Sounds like a load of crap and there just building up false reasons for it happening. The bottom line is they had wheel off last and if there was any doubts about thread length or wheel coming off they should of told you before you took vehicle away.

 

[Molly 3]

If the nuts were torque correctly they would not come loose, how can they prove that the torque wrench was set correctly ask to see the vidio , the nuts should tightened in the right order and the final tightening with a torque wrench, the wrench should,be calibrated annually , could be in there insurance small print ,

 

[trevskoda]

Most garages i have seen use air tools and no torque settings, i always insist on doing my own wheels when after getting tyres fitted, there are still cowboys out there.

 

[Molly 3]

Correct trev that usually causes over tightening ,some tyre companies put a disclaimer on the receipt asking you to take it back for a re torque after a set mileage,