Motorhomes - PVC or 'Wide-body'

[wildebus]

OK,
following on from my previous "Motorhome or Caravan" question, here is another one ...

Panel Van Conversion or Custom bodied Motorhome?

I have never had a Custom Shelled/Wide-bodied/whatever there are called Motorhome, but ... I have heard that they tend to creak and shake a lot more than a PVC. Is that really the case? or just someones experience of a poorly built one?

I am looking at the options and I have to say that the wider motorhome appeals to me as that extra few inches translates to a much more open feeling typically; plus the kind of layout I would like tends to be more achievable in a custom.
I am not bothered about the wider vehicle being potentially more awkward on the road, but I would not like constant creaking behind me when driving around.

Still considering a self-conversion but not using a Panal Van base, but a Chassis Cab with a low-loader luton box (to give that wider body with straight sides).


Of those folk who have had both types of Motorhome, which did they prefer? (and please note, I am really looking for opinion on living with them and general driving experience rather than thier driveability down narrow country lanes - this aspect is pretty much a given)

 

[Millie Master]

Well Dave, I am so very surprised to read this post of yours, which I can't answer as a past owner of both types of van as I haven't any such experience. However as an ex caravan site owner in France and having had quite literally hundreds of both 'flimsy' motorhomes and panel van motorhome stop on our sites (yes sites, as we built 2 of them) I hope my observation might be of interest to you.

Almost to a man, when asked how they were finding their holidays over in France, the very vast majority of the 'flimsy owners made comment about the narrow roads and the difficulty in driving through so many of the rural villages, whereas, and in stark contrast, the PVC owners all had happy smiles and none of them had experienced any problems.

The other curious observation I noted was that so many of the 'flimsy' owners were towing small cars either on trailers or on 'A' frame extensions and when asked why they did such a thing, almost to a man (or woman) they all said that when they got to the area they were stopping at, they wanted something small and manageable to drive around in.................... Of course, as a then 'tugger' I always asked "then why don't you have a caravan" to which almost everyone said "because we don't like towing" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???? what is it with these people?

The final thing I will say Dave is that of the 2 different types of motorhome 'flimsy' - V - PVC, from my observations so many of the 'flimsies' had body panel damage whereas the very vast majority of the PVC's had none whatsoever.

You might gather from this that I have absolutely zero interest in 'flimsy ownership!

Phil.

 

[argoose]

I have a coachbuilt and prefer the extra space over a PVC. I would have a PVC as a weekend van , but for weeks away I'd need to be able to stretch out like at home. Only two of us in the van and I feel like we would be on top of each other in a PVC.
Yes they are not as quiet as PVC and you have to be more aware of your surroundings when driving. But I hate driving so it's more about being comfortable when I get there than the traveling. I would never tow a car to use when sited, I will always use public transport, someone else can have the 'pleasure' of driving around small towns villages. A, I get to see the countryside, more than traffic. B, I can have a pie and a pint whenever I want and 3, The sights you see on public transport is amazing, like having a free cabaret.

 

[Minisorella]

Birdie is my one and only motorhome, so I can't compare the driving experience to panel van conversions. Mine's a fairly old (Jan 2006) motorhome and yes, she rattles noisily along but I've never experienced shaking of any kind. Birdie's barely over 6m long, so drives very easily. I honestly don't think I could ever give up the space I have for a narrower van because I love my big wrap around rear lounge and the masses of light through the 3 big windows... plus the panoramic views. I don't even like fixed beds because I feel they just steal space in the day time.

I can see the benefits of a nice, solid van conversion without the background worry of leaking seams and so on. A slightly narrower vehicle maybe wouldn't have as many adventure scars as Birdie either! I've seen some truly stunning PVCs but many of them feel so dark and confined compared to mine. I guess it's just one of those very personal decisions based on how it makes you feel when using the living space and what you're used to, rather than the practicalities of either type.

 

[wildebus]

Well Dave, I am so very surprised to read this post of yours, which I can't answer as a past owner of both types of van as I haven't any such experience. However as an ex caravan site owner in France and having had quite literally hundreds of both 'flimsy' motorhomes and panel van motorhome stop on our sites (yes sites, as we built 2 of them) I hope my observation might be of interest to you.

Almost to a man, when asked how they were finding their holidays over in France, the very vast majority of the 'flimsy owners made comment about the narrow roads and the difficulty in driving through so many of the rural villages, whereas, and in stark contrast, the PVC owners all had happy smiles and none of them had experienced any problems.

The other curious observation I noted was that so many of the 'flimsy' owners were towing small cars either on trailers or on 'A' frame extensions and when asked why they did such a thing, almost to a man (or woman) they all said that when they got to the area they were stopping at, they wanted something small and manageable to drive around in.................... Of course, as a then 'tugger' I always asked "then why don't you have a caravan" to which almost everyone said "because we don't like towing" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???? what is it with these people?

The final thing I will say Dave is that of the 2 different types of motorhome 'flimsy' - V - PVC, from my observations so many of the 'flimsies' had body panel damage whereas the very vast majority of the PVC's had none whatsoever.

You might gather from this that I have absolutely zero interest in 'flimsy ownership!

Phil.

Well, the thing is I just don't find myself going down roads that could not be tackled in either types of Motorhome (or towing a Caravan for that matter) - so the question of accessibility in reality is just not a factor for me.
Maybe I am not as adventurous as others in exploring off the beaten track any more but that's the way it is

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the comments.


As an aside, I can see the attraction of having a small "toed" to whizz around in and I know someone who bought a Autosleeper PVC and specifically bought a car to tow behind it to use once on site to tour around on. I think the idea was to avoid the need to decamp everything to take a trip out to sightsee.
I believe he went down the PVC route as he hated the 'flimsies' as you call them; and he bought a motorhome as he wouldn't be seen dead towing a caravan. I am not going to comment on the logic of that
For me, if that was the holiday pattern, I think I would go down the Caravan route TBH.
I think the best solution is maybe one that a customer of mine has. I sorted him out with an electrics setup for his VW T5 Kombi that he uses for weekends away when he goes off on his hobby; but for longer breaks or with his family he also has a Caravan that he can tow with the T5 (and I did a setup for that so he can share some services to avoid duplication). That approach to me makes a lot of sense.
I found the T5 too small personally as a camper (the reason I converted a larger van) but I could do a similar thing with my LT plus a Caravan - but then again, the LT is hardly a small runaround itself to drive around sightseeing in.

I could (I believe) get an A-Frame on my Corsa and pull that behind a 'flimsie' on the occasions I would want to explore. It would save buying a much bigger car purely to be able to tow a caravan (I would have no need whatsoever for a big car apart from that) and I would have a compact car to explore the area and also not have to pack everything away each time, so maybe there is logic behind that approach depending on the individuals requirements and circumstances?
(When I had a "driveaway" awning on my T5, I never once "drove away" once setup - too much hassle. For me, when you arrive somewhere, you tend to stay there until you leave, and if you want to go somewhere, that is what your feet are for )
There is no 'one size fits all' after all.

 

[wildebus]

I have a coachbuilt and prefer the extra space over a PVC. I would have a PVC as a weekend van , but for weeks away I'd need to be able to stretch out like at home. Only two of us in the van and I feel like we would be on top of each other in a PVC.
Yes they are not as quiet as PVC and you have to be more aware of your surroundings when driving. But I hate driving so it's more about being comfortable when I get there than the traveling. I would never tow a car to use when sited, I will always use public transport, someone else can have the 'pleasure' of driving around small towns villages. A, I get to see the countryside, more than traffic. B, I can have a pie and a pint whenever I want and 3, The sights you see on public transport is amazing, like having a free cabaret.

I think this is a good summary of my own thinking (although I don't mind driving and would not dismiss the idea of towing a car, but in all likelyhood I wouldn't bother).

On the matter of towing a car, anyone could, of course, just take the same approach as if they flew somewhere on holiday and wanted to explore in your own vehicle - just hire a little car. Almost certainly cheaper than towing your own until many many years down the line.

 

[in h]

The essential difference is in the insulation. A coachbuilt van is always better insulated. It's noticable how much colder (or warmer in Summer) the cab feels unless it's an A-Class.

I'm always amused by the "flimsy" response. Having had both sorts, I would say that it depends on which bit you are looking at. Some PVCs are incredibly flimsy, especially if you catch the side with the sliding door. Some are not.

Most coachbuilt vans are on fairly tough chassis with strong frameworks to the body, but the body is often quite easy to bruise.

The bigger difference is in cost and availability of repair. A PVC is usually easily fixed at almost any car bodywork place, but a coachbuilt van is a bit more specialised and there are fewer repairers available. They tend to have to replace a big panel rather than pull out a dent, so it makes fixing a small ding more expensive.

And frankly, who cares? Mine has had a scrape in one panel for eight years. It's aluminium, so it isn't going to rust. Why waste money on a pointless cosmetic fix?

As for creaks and rattles, that really is down to quality. Cheap PVCs creak, good ones don't. Cheap coachbuilts creak, good ones don't.

Rattles are a different can of worms. They're usually caused by over-inflated tyres. In particular by CP tyres with ludicrous recommended pressures.

Width is non-issue. You can buy coachbuilt vans as narrow as a PVC or you can buy ones that are a stupid width.
It's a choice, but none can be wider than 2.55 metres by law.

Personally, I think that it's better to stick to no more than 2.0 metres wide, but some people want more space inside.

I live on a narrow, winding single-track road with a sheer drop of hundreds of metres at one side. It's no harder to drive down in the motorhome than the car: neither can pass anything wider than a bicycle, except at passing places.

 

[2cv]

I spent years researching what I wanted before buying my only motorhome. I was attracted to PVCs by their size, being able to use them almost as a car as they fit most parking spaces. However I found the interiors slightly too small, especially in the rear lounge layout that I preferred. In the end I chose a coach-built van on a smaller base vehicle, meaning that it’s only 5mm wider than the panel van I considered but has significantly more lounge width because of the straight sides. It also offers the advantage of much more over-cab storage than offered by a PVC. At 6m long using overhang in car parks means that it fits in a car space.
I have nothing to compare it to as far as rattles when travelling, but can only say it doesn’t. Like Jenny I love the views from a rear lounge and the large bed can be made up in under 2 minutes. Another advantage of the layout in winter is that the relatively poorly insulated cab is far from where we sit and sleep.
7 years on I’m happy with what I have.

 

[in h]

The essential difference is in the insulation. A coachbuilt van is always better insulated. It's noticeable how much colder (or warmer in Summer) the cab feels unless it's an A-Class.

Allied to that is corrosion: sadly, most PVCs lack an effective vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation, so they end up rusting away.
On the other hand, many coachbuilt vans use inferior joint sealing materials, so they leak as they get old.

 

[HurricaneSmith]

I've towed a caravan, a driven wider coachbuilt for many years, and now motor in a narrower PVC.

I almost gave up camping because I was beginning to struggle in the coachbuilt, due to what I perceived as an increase in traffic in minor roads, and the reduction in the standard of driving by other motorists. Additionally I've always loved bumbling down tiny lanes to reach 'out of the way' places.

The PVC feels to me, more like I'm driving a car, it's easier to park in towns, and I'm happy again. Yes, the trade off is that there's less internal space, but we travel light and are tidy, so that's not a problem for us.

I recognise that some campers are irritated by the sound of the sliding door, but there's little I can do about that. An unexpected bonus is the ability to throw open the rear doors, let fresh air instantly pour in, and shake out the bedding each morning without fuss.
.

 

[SquirrellCook]

Makes interesting reading, but sadly just convinces me that the only way is to buy a new chassis bulkhead or cab and build your own.

 

[Nick-Mandy]

I brought a Ford chassis cab and had a Luton Box of my own dimensions fitted on the back. I converted it into a mobile market stall. I always thought the Luton Box would make such a great self-built Motorhome.

 

[wildebus]

When I was a self-employed Market Trader, I brought a Ford chassis cab and had a Luton Box of my own dimensions fitted on the back. I converted it into a mobile market stall. I always thought that the Luton Box would make such a great self-built Motorhome.

Yup. The low-loader versions on FWD Vans such as the Sevel or Movano/Master look like good potential conversion bases (I would prefer the Movano or Master over the Ducato personally given the choice and with the Low-Loaders you do).

 

[mark61]

Makes interesting reading, but sadly just convinces me that the only way is to buy a new chassis bulkhead or cab and build your own.

Pretty much the conclusion I've come to, trouble is I don't mind doing the conversion, but not building the body.

These people used to show a price for just chassis and shell, which would have been a reasonable route to go.

https://www.woelcke.de/files/userfiles/files/Prospekte/autark-runner-2020_web.pdf

 

[Millie Master]

Allied to that is corrosion: sadly, most PVCs lack an effective vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation, so they end up rusting away.
On the other hand, many coachbuilt vans use inferior joint sealing materials, so they leak as they get old.

WRONG.......... ever since 2004 all Renault Masters (et all) and from 2007 all Sevel vans (Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer, Citroen Relay) have had fully galvanised bodies and since the latest model change the Merc. Sprinter/VW Crafter have also had galvanised bodies.

What is a very stark and often overlooked fact is that the very vast majority of professionally converted PVC's have very poor insulation whereas for little or no extra cost they could opt to have closed cell spray foam insulation which totally overcomes the problems or needs for vapour barriers.

And as for the option of towing a small car, if anyone ever needs to think about doing this then why not in the first instance buy a beautiful caravan and tow it behind a very sensible and comfortable car in the first place?

 

[Nick-Mandy]

Pretty much the conclusion I've come to, trouble is I don't mind doing the conversion, but not building the body.

These people used to show a price for just chassis and shell, which would have been a reasonable route to go.

https://www.woelcke.de/files/userfiles/files/Prospekte/autark-runner-2020_web.pdf

I wouldn't recommend anyone building the Luton Box themselves. It can be expensive but using the services of a professional coach builder, is well worth the money. Professionally built will with-stand a heavy impact and won't slide off its base travelling along the motorway..! I paid £5k over 17 years ago and I think it was worth every penny.

Only drawback is, the Luton Box can be extremely heavy compared to a standard coach built motorhome body.

 

[wildebus]

Pretty much the conclusion I've come to, trouble is I don't mind doing the conversion, but not building the body.

These people used to show a price for just chassis and shell, which would have been a reasonable route to go.

https://www.woelcke.de/files/userfiles/files/Prospekte/autark-runner-2020_web.pdf

I think you are in a totally different ballgame with that kind of shell!

This is one of my favourite videos showing one of the Autark campers - very friendly Swiss chap who has been travelling the world in his off-road VW T5

 

[SquirrellCook]

Pretty much the conclusion I've come to, trouble is I don't mind doing the conversion, but not building the body.

These people used to show a price for just chassis and shell, which would have been a reasonable route to go.

https://www.woelcke.de/files/userfiles/files/Prospekte/autark-runner-2020_web.pdf

Unfortunately that’s where the problems begin. To do a job well makes it uneconomic to sell. It’s the hours you put in at the beginning makes for a long lasting and rewarding project. Remember “makeup washes off”

 

[in h]

WRONG.......... ever since 2004 all Renault Masters (et all) and from 2007 all Sevel vans (Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer, Citroen Relay) have had fully galvanised bodies and since the latest model change the Merc. Sprinter/VW Crafter have also had galvanised bodies.

Your faith in a layer of zinc is touching, but optimistic.

I agree that they're better, but it is still a serious issue.

I also agree about the tow car.

 

[in h]

There is another difference between a pvc and a coachbuilt, which is really quite significant.

With a pvc you are much nearer the outdoors. Usually you can slide the door wide and be almost outdoors when inside. You can open the back doors as well in many of them. The one I had was arranged so that you could even cook outdoors if you preferred. Though to be honest, we hardly ever did.

In a coachbuilt van, you are more "inside" and isolated from the place you're visiting. Better insulated from heat or cold, noise and wind, but after all, part of the point of the trip is often to visit where you're going!