changing springs on Ducato Motorhome

[wildebus]

I am thinking of changing the springs on my Ducato based motorhome and wondering if anyone here has done this and what difference they noticed?

To recap ....
The original owner of my Motorhome had the rear leaf springs replaced after one failed. I don't know if it was fitted with the single or the double lead spring (I think maybe single as that was quite common and is too weak for a 3.5t van?). I suspect one reason why it failed was he likely ran at the 3.5t weight limit a lot of the time or maybe beyond it.
He chose to get triple-leaf Jones Springs fitted. These are quality springs and the ones fitted are VHD - Very Heavy Duty - Springs. I think they are too powerful/strong/stiff for my motorhome as I have always found the ride at the rear very 'crashy' with very little give, and when you look at the rear, the third leaf is never in contact at the ends regardless of how much weight is at the rear. The back end never seems to drop any lower. I don't have any experience of a standard setup though so not got anything to compare with in terms of ride.
I fitted rear airbags and they never made any difference as the distance from axle to bump stop was just too large for the airbags to do anything without going beyond the maximum pressure, which is no use of course, so removed those airbags again.

So I think reverting to a double spring could be a good option, and probably a 'normal' double-spring rather than a Jones Spring (I get the impression even the Jones Double Spring is very stiff still?). And then maybe try adding Air Suspension again as those people who have that seem to love it!

So the question is ...
What difference has anyone noticed after changing spring types? the most likely change is from single to double springs I would guess? Did it make the van less bouncy? Improved the drive or hardened it a bit much? anyone else ever run triple leaf springs and how do they find them?
What I don't want to really do is do this work and spend the money only to find there was no point in changing, but I am getting a bit fed up with the crashiness at the back and lack of any rear suspension in effect.

 

[wildebus]

Going to reply to my own post with an option, which anyone free to comment on ....
Spoke to Jones Springs (maker of the ones I have) and described the situation. They recommended what they call a "1+1" spring (as opposed to a double-spring). This they say would give me the more compliant ride and also deal with the weight when fully loaded at the rear.
It sounds like that could be a good option for my van. Anyone here used the Jones "1+1" spring?

(The jones "1+1" spring is basically the single leaf with the second leaf straight and having "loose" ends which comes into play when you have a high load. I guess the triple-spring I have now could be described as a "2+1" spring as that is a double-spring with the third leaf being like a loose stright leaf, but the double-spring seems so stiff the 3rd leaf never does anything.

The triple one I have is like this ....

 

[Trotter]

I’ve Jones double springs on my Adria Twin, 3.3 GVWT. I would think that there would be little more to do to get the other 200kg. My license prevents me from going higher than 3.5 tonn.

Funny how on a Friday afternoon I was driving a 40 tonne artic, Saturday morning, nothing bigger than a Tranny

 

[wildebus]

I’ve Jones double springs on my Adria Twin, 3.3 GVWT. I would think that there would be little more to do to get the other 200kg. My license prevents me from going higher than 3.5 tonn.

Funny how on a Friday afternoon I was driving a 40 tonne artic, Saturday morning, nothing bigger than a Tranny

If you wanted to you could upgrade to 3.5t I am sure. I am not looking to change in order to allow any weight carrying upgrade, btw.

So how do you find the ride on your van then?

 

[Trotter]

If you wanted to you could upgrade to 3.5t I am sure. I am not looking to change in order to allow any weight carrying upgrade, btw.

So how do you find the ride on your van then?

Seems to ride better. Cornering has certainly improved. No more rolling. Then again the sitting around idle for it first 11 years, couldn’t have helped.

I’m not in a hurry to increase the GVW. Solo traveller.

 

[wildebus]

Seems to ride better. Cornering has certainly improved. No more rolling. Then again the sitting around idle for it first 11 years, couldn’t have helped.

I’m not in a hurry to increase the GVW. Solo traveller.

Not fully following.. So you changed to these new springs? what did you have fitted before?

Sounds like you had maybe a standard single leaf spring if you had roll and that is eliminated?

 

[korky]

My Globecar PVC on the Fiat 6m light chassis (3.5t) sagged on the right rear side from delivery. Not ideal. Water tank,oven,kitchen,fridge, all on that side of the van. After a few years I had Midland Road Springs in Nottingham fit double springs. The ride was very harsh. They were a great company to deal with and put me back to single leaf springs and all good now. Also fitted Dunlop Air assist on rear years ago which improved cornering and stability a lot.

 

[wildebus]

My Globecar PVC on the Fiat 6m light chassis (3.5t) sagged on the right rear side from delivery. Not ideal. Water tank,oven,kitchen,fridge, all on that side of the van. After a few years I had Midland Road Springs in Nottingham fit double springs. The ride was very harsh. They were a great company to deal with and put me back to single leaf springs and all good now. Also fitted Dunlop Air assist on rear years ago which improved cornering and stability a lot.

Thanks for your reply. I think the problem with one-sidedness is likely quite common. I don't have that issue despite having all the batteries (6 of them) on the drivers side (so plus my weight on top) but likely not a problem currently as I have these mental 3-leaf springs!

I wonder if I have more weight on the rear springs than you, having a motorhome body with a 6 foot overhang and 90L watertank behind the rear wheels? Interesting that single leafs were ok with your weight van. If you found doubles very harsh, I think triples on mine really is too much.
I do like the idea of those 1+1 ones I mentioned and most likely will go for that as maybe the most flexible option, and could bring in Air Bag Assist if need be.

 

[Scotia]

I’ve Jones double springs on my Adria Twin, 3.3 GVWT. I would think that there would be little more to do to get the other 200kg. My license prevents me from going higher than 3.5 tonn.

Funny how on a Friday afternoon I was driving a 40 tonne artic, Saturday morning, nothing bigger than a Tranny

 

[Landyseverywhere]

If you go for the 1 + 1 option you run the risk of being back where you started ride wise,personally I would fit the standard single leaf springs and air bags,works very well on mine and we carry 150kg of scooter and rack on the tow bar..I have on board compressor and solenoid valves with dual digital pressure gauge so I can raise or lower each side independently from switches on the dash

 

[wildebus]

If you go for the 1 + 1 option you run the risk of being back where you started ride wise,personally I would fit the standard single leaf springs and air bags,works very well on mine and we carry 150kg of scooter and rack on the tow bar..I have on board compressor and solenoid valves with dual digital pressure gauge so I can raise or lower each side independently from switches on the dash

The thing with the 1+1 as decribed to me by the technical guy at the company is that in normal use it is the same as a single leaf spring and only when the extra assistance is needed when a single leaf could be overwhelmed does the second spring comes into play, which sounds like a good way to go.

 

[Landyseverywhere]

The thing with the 1+1 as decribed to me by the technical guy at the company is that in normal use it is the same as a single leaf spring and only when the extra assistance is needed when a single leaf could be overwhelmed does the second spring comes into play, which sounds like a good way to go.

I can only speak from my personal experience with single leaf and air bags.
I decided this route based on the fact that the original springs were designed by the manufacturer to do the job and air assistance would help smooth the ride and 40+ years around the motor trade..working from HGV,& PSVs to vans and cars

 

[The laird]

I used jibes springs years ago (family business) fitted doubles to my hymer b544 Fiat based
Found it sat better but the ride was far to hard
They've en asked as to what colour I wanted black or silver

 

[wildebus]

I can only speak from my personal experience with single leaf and air bags.
I decided this route based on the fact that the original springs were designed by the manufacturer to do the job and air assistance would help smooth the ride and 40+ years around the motor trade..working from HGV,& PSVs to vans and cars

I've just seen too many posts reporting how single leaf springs on ducato motorhomes have failed - including the one I have.

 

[wildebus]

I used jibes springs years ago (family business) fitted doubles to my hymer b544 Fiat based
Found it sat better but the ride was far to hard
They've en asked as to what colour I wanted black or silver

this really confirms my triples are not right for the vehicle

 

[alwaysared]

I've got double leaf springs from Jones' on my Ducato and it sits better, corners better and I don't find it too harsh. I would think the triple ones would be a bit harsher though. Jones' have been round for years, I used to get springs from them in the early seventies.

Regards,
Del

 

[wildebus]

I've got double leaf springs from Jones' on my Ducato and it sits better, corners better and I don't find it too harsh. I would think the triple ones would be a bit harsher though. Jones' have been round for years, I used to get springs from them in the early seventies.

Regards,
Del

The previous (and only) owner of my Motorhome was a very particular guy and he would have researched the companies but I think he maybe went too far the other way after the original spring failed?

He did also used to tow a fair sized trailer so that might have been a decision factor?

 

[korky]

I should have added for clarity, that although I ended up reverting to single leaf springs they were a stiffer alternative to the originals. They were fitted in 2021 and no sagging now.

 

[wildebus]

Going to add a secondary part to this thread .....

I don't have access to my van to take a look as it is away at the garage getting some work done, so cannot check myself. I presume there are rear shock absorbers at the back on a Ducato. Is there a value in replacing those at the same time as replacing the rear springs to essentially refresh the full rear suspension? Thinking as the guy is down there doing the springs anyway, the extra time to swap the shocks will be less than doing it as a separate job later on.
As the van is 17 years old with a mileage in 6 figures the shocks must have seen a fair bit of use so new ones wouldn't hurt.

 

[wildebus]

Well, decision made

From various comments and observations, I will definately get an improvement by changing the springs to a softer combo, be it single or double.
I do like the idea of the 1+1 spring from Jones, giving the compliancy of a single spring with the backup of the second leaf if/when needed, so ordered those.
And will replace the rear shocks as well, just using standard shocks to give that a refresh at the same time.
New springs will be made tomorrow (these are custom made to order), delivered to the garage on Thursday or Friday and will hopefully see a greatly more enjoyable drive home when I pick the motorhome up sometime next week (away on a car roadtrip from tomorrow, so they can take their time doing the work)