Cheaper lithium battery's

David,
Thanks, and for the additional info
The vehicle is stored inside over the winter.
The storage has clear roofing.
I leave the main control penel switch on
Thus the 120watt solar panel has (thus far) maintained my single leisure battry and Engine battery.
I got a mobile techie to remove the banner battery and install the new pair (politely reminding him of the correct wiring)
Thus my expectation is that all is well.
The manager at the storage facility knows how to check the voltags and does so periodically
With no usage the solar should (?) maintain all batteries above 90%
 
With someone around to do occasional checking that would be a definite bonus (y)
 
Yes, and you may remember my Calira power unit (unlike many) will charge the EB but only withn the master switch on.
Verified by observstion and the manual.
thanks for you help over the year.
 
Apart from the weight, which thankfully isn't a issue for me, another disadvantage of LCA agm over lithium, is the time it takes to recharge,
Something I'll have to live with.
As Morecambe and Wise would say, Give me sunshine.
 
Trotter said:
Apart from the weight, which thankfully isn't a issue for me, another disadvantage of LCA agm over lithium, is the time it takes to recharge,
Something I'll have to live with.
As Morecambe and Wise would say, Give me sunshine.
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as you said you have gone Lead-carbon, you will see little disadvantage in that area :)
 
A good point their is you can safely disconect battery for the winter months without fear of charging the battery below zero ,not a problem when the van is in use .a battery on of switch could be easily fitted
 
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Molly 3 said:
A good point their is you can safely disconect battery for the winter months without fear of charging the battery below zero ,not a problem when the van is in use .a battery on of switch could be easily fitted
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This is an excellent point (y) If someone is totally a summer-time user, then they should be able to ignore the low-temp issues of Lithium charging (but with a caveat that in some of the UK, you get -ve temperatures very late in the year. It snows up here in May!)
 
wildebus said:
as you said you have gone Lead-carbon, you will see little disadvantage in that area :)
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Hope you're right Dave. It's a bit academic now. Bill is paid, batteries installed.
 
Molly 3 said:
We all know LA battery should not be taken down to below 50%, how low can a L C battery be discharged .
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Generally they are fine down to 80% DoD. The limitations are really around voltage - the greater the discharge the lower the voltage is. And at higher discharges may be too low to drive some kit you have.
Like all batteries, including Lithium, the deeper you discharge, the more you reduce the cycle count.
This is a chart for the North Star Lead Carbons in my Campervan ....
1606679362298.png
Lets assume you are charging well, using the Blue line, at 50%, you have 2,000 cycles. At 80% you still have 1,000 cycles. (keep discharge to around 30% and you are at nearly 5,000 cycles.
Even 1,000 cycles is a lot better than the typical Lead Acid cheap lead acid battery,
 
Molly 3 said:
Spot on Neil ,my van is 300 klg pay load Alpha batterys 100 amp poweroad £ 499 , did you go top of the range or economy .
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I went with 2 x 100ah TN Power lifepo4’s Baz. Was either one Relion or two of those and one wouldn’t have been enough for me so no contest really 👍
 
wildebus said:
Generally they are fine down to 80% DoD. The limitations are really around voltage - the greater the discharge the lower the voltage is. And at higher discharges may be too low to drive some kit you have.
Like all batteries, including Lithium, the deeper you discharge, the more you reduce the cycle count.
This is a chart for the North Star Lead Carbons in my Campervan ....
View attachment 57666
Lets assume you are charging well, using the Blue line, at 50%, you have 2,000 cycles. At 80% you still have 1,000 cycles. (keep discharge to around 30% and you are at nearly 5,000 cycles.
Even 1,000 cycles is a lot better than the typical Lead Acid cheap lead acid battery,
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Our beloved leader has decreed, I should become concerned the day after I reach a 50% level. Who am I to argue about that?
 
As Wildebus says we do need to keep in mind that Lithium batteries also have a cycle life.
The advertising make a big deal about 100% discharge but don't tell you that using that capacity had a significant impact on longevity.
 
wildebus said:
Generally they are fine down to 80% DoD. The limitations are really around voltage - the greater the discharge the lower the voltage is. And at higher discharges may be too low to drive some kit you have.
Like all batteries, including Lithium, the deeper you discharge, the more you reduce the cycle count.
This is a chart for the North Star Lead Carbons in my Campervan ....
View attachment 57666
Lets assume you are charging well, using the Blue line, at 50%, you have 2,000 cycles. At 80% you still have 1,000 cycles. (keep discharge to around 30% and you are at nearly 5,000 cycles.
Even 1,000 cycles is a lot better than the typical Lead Acid cheap lead acid battery,
Click to expand...
thanks that sounds like a good few cycles longer than me .thanks for your informative comments
 
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Philip Tomlinson said:
I said that you should try and normally discharge to 50% and save the rest as a reserve.
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With my lithium’s I aim between 20% and 80% in winter keeping the below 20% as my emergency. Worked okay for me at that for around 11 months. I know you can zero them but just because you can... lol
 
The way I look at it is if you (anyone, not a specific person) takes their batteries down to as low as they can physically go on a regular basis, they have too little capacity and need more battery capacity in their setup.
Think of the batteries as a fuel tank in your van - the low fuel (battery) light comes on and you start to look ernestly for a fuel station (recharge); you maybe slow down a bit to try and conserve what is left in the meantime (turn off things you don't really need).
Use what is left in the tank (bank) as Philip says - a reserve in case of immediate need.
At what percentage of discharge anything remaining becomes the reserve can depend on the battery technology you have and your own personal preferences. 50% SOC is a sensible number to base it on (and for the more basic Lead Acid batteries, I'd maybe say 60% or higher SOC).

One of these things where just because you CAN do something (like take Lithium down to 100%) doesn't mean you SHOULD.

My Lead Carbon battery bank I could go down to 20% SOC and I would not be concerned about any damage to them, but .... I know I would be eating into their overall service life, so I don't plan to do that on a regular basis. So ... for that reason, as they are coming close to 50% at the moment I will be going out and plugging into EHU some time today.
 
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wildebus said:
The way I look at it is if you (anyone, not a specific person) takes their batteries down to as low as they can physically go on a regular basis, they have too little capacity and need more battery capacity in their setup.
Think of the batteries as a fuel tank in your van - the low fuel (battery) light comes on and you start to look ernestly for a fuel station (recharge); you maybe slow down a bit to try and conserve what is left (turn off things you don't really need).
Use what is left in the tank (bank) as Philip says - a reserve in case of immediate need.
At what percentage of discharge anything remaining becomes the reserve can depend on the battery technology you have and your own personal preferences. 50% SOC is a sensible number to base it on (and for the more basic Lead Acid batteries, I'd maybe say 60% or higher SOC).

One of these things where just because you CAN do something (like take Lithium down to 100%) doesn't mean you SHOULD.

My Lead Carbon battery bank I could go down to 20% SOC and I would not be concerned about any damage to them, but .... I know I would be eating into their overall service life, so I don't plan to do that on a regular basis. So ... for that reason, as they are coming close to 50% at the moment I will be going out and plugging into EHU some time today.
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Precisely !
Yes go low in an emergency ONLY.
By and large stay over 50%
 
What Wildebus has written was my take on what Phil told me. The first paragraph in post 57 is why I've gone with 3 batteries.
 
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