DVLA reclassification

Not in the public interest to release certain information under a FOI - it's a public body funded by us. It's not like we want to know what MI6 are doing tomorrow!!!!!!!!!! Yet they willingly release our details (Data Protection doesn't apply to them of course) to 'authorised' persons, which is just about anybody and all the private parking companies who all want to charge us disproportionate amounts of money for the most minor of perceived misdemeanours . Democracy? Leave Europe and make our own laws? Lord help us.
 
So, does this mean that new "professional" PVCs will now be classified as "window vans"? Also (and FWIW), I've erroneously waved at supermarket delivery vans that look like coachbuilts from the front, so does this mean that supermarket delivery vans should be reclassified as "motor caravans"?
 
Having read your links I must admit I partly agree with the DVLA. What I don't agree with is once a "Goods" vehicle is converted to a "Passenger Vehicle" this should be changed on the registration document as it is no longer safe or in many cases practical to operate as a "Goods"
 
GeoffL said:
So, does this mean that new "professional" PVCs will now be classified as "window vans"? Also (and FWIW), I've erroneously waved at supermarket delivery vans that look like coachbuilts from the front, so does this mean that supermarket delivery vans should be reclassified as "motor caravans"?
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No anything meeting motor caravan tech specs with type approval at first registration will be accepted.
A PCSO friend of ours realised that his partner was waving at Morrisons vans thinking they were ambulances😀
Delivery van conversions may get thro as coachbuilt lookalikes in the future?
 
SquirrellCook said:
Having read your links I must admit I partly agree with the DVLA. What I don't agree with is once a "Goods" vehicle is converted to a "Passenger Vehicle" this should be changed on the registration document as it is no longer safe or in many cases practical to operate as a "Goods"
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There's also issues with insurance, ferries, etc.

IMHO the biggest issue is insurance because it can be difficult to impossible to insure a vehicle for usage that is nominally incompatible with its V5 classification. FWIW, I have a panel van that I've adapted for use as a mobile office. The adaptations are ply and carpet lining, a secondary 12v power supply (for computers etc), and a portable desk that can also be used on its side as a load divider. Each year several insurers refuse to quote and I have very little choice. Some say that the adaptations make it a wrongly-classified living van; others say that the modifications are unacceptable for a commercial vehicle. Note that this is a commercial vehicle that doesn't meet with DVLA's stated requirements because it has no load-area side windows, no bed, no sink, etc. etc.

BTW & FWIW, having done some research on the 'net I thought that the DVLA might be acting unlawfully by rewriting the law 'on the fly'. However, and unbelievably, The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 does not appear to contain a definition for 'motor caravan' even though just about everything else is defined at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made! So until that's remedied, I suspect that the definition of a 'motor caravan' is whatever the DVLA think it is at the time of asking ?!?!
 
To be fair to DVLA (I know it goes against the grain😀) the wording has been the same since 2011.
I suspect that there's a clue to motive in their FoI reply and that's 'revenue protection'.
Converting used vans avoids the massive first year VED and 5 subsequent enhanced years.

Automatic speed cameras require plod's back room boys to check DVLA records rather than fire out tickets without much thinking - it looks like a van so it must be a van.
The saving grace maybe that one can park and overnight where motorhomes are banned! Small comfort I expect.

Turning to your mobile office - are you being too forthcoming about your modifications?
Any number of vans are full of plywood linings and shelving/racking for tools and materials.
Some may have adjustable work benches.
Some may have carpet to protect their loads - many will have extra power points.
Most crafts people use computers in the guise of mobile phones whilst in their vans.
I'd say less is more when you describe modifications rather than usage.
 
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You cannot insure a van here unless you can show books that you run a biz,and it is way over £700 or more where as a camper is about £200.
 
trevskoda said:
You cannot insure a van here unless you can show books that you run a biz,and it is way over £700 or more where as a camper is about £200.
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That used to be the case on the right-hand side of the Irish Sea also.

FWIW, I bought my panel van new in 2001 and registered it to my business. The tax rules changed in the noughties and I stood to be charged for a £3k benefit in kind + fuel charges by the Inland RobbinYou even though I then had a car to use for private journeys. So I transferred the van to me, personally, as I could then charge my business IRAM rates for business trips and avoid the tax penalty. Insurer after insurer told me I could only get insurance that included business use, with 'own goods only' being the cheapest option. When I closed down my business and started working for someone else, I found that it was still impossible to insure the van on personal-use-only terms. It's only in the last couple of years that I've been able to get non-business insurance for it -- but I still get the issues I described up-thread.
 
trevskoda, that's a tough thing about van insurance. My son has a new Custom Sport (prefers a nice eye catching van to a car) for private use only - just £260 fully comp for insurance. What a rules we have in the UK for our transport - suppose it's a huge money spinner for a huge amount of people, not just the thieves parading as HMG. I see DVLA has brought out new rules about personal plates on retention - they must think us public are such a nuisance
 
Tolls and ferries do not go on DVLA for classification - they have their own rules. IIRC the Severn bridge used to say if you get the wrong class at the booth, ask them to check, and if it is a campervan in side you got the campervan price.

Councils can use their own definition too - so parking van with windows avoiding signs is going to lose....

Insurance co's will catch up.

The only real issue as I see it, it speed limits - and that is black and white (once people read and understand the differences for vans and motorcaravans and weight limits).

TBH - can't blame DVLA. Our campervan is a van with dark windows (does comply) but is stealthy. Some of the self builds out there have taken the p**s for years. Things have to change. We'll see what the road tax will be on self build conversions..... (if they change to same as new-build motorcaravans - will we want to change?!)
 
Yes, but a lot of light vans now have lower missions than a lot of cars, but every van on the road is taxed at the same huge amount - just another revenue raising exercise - also new vans have all the safety features of new cars with brakes etc to match, yet they have speed restrictions. Stupid one is the 60mph on a dual but 70 on a m/way. Most of Scotland's m/ways are only 2 lanes so why the difference. I know MPs will never ever travel in a van but they need to realise things have moved on from the brickies' Transits featured on the Sweeney and The Professionals.
 
We've just come back from Arran and ferry prices worked mostly on length and height of vehicle. My 2007 VW is less than 5m long and just under 2m high even though I have a pop top. My ticket was classed as motorhome under 6m length which is the same as car rates. £31.60 return crossing.

Speaking on insurance costs and DVLA classifications my unladen weight with full tank and driver is 2240 kg and van original GVW was T28 so 2800 kg. Full professional Leisuredrive 4 passenger conversion carried out 6 months after van was new. Has Smeg double hob, Smeg oven/grille, Dometic gas/240/12v fridge, electric heating and 240v consumer unit with full controls. Vents on outside for fridge and oven. Fully certified lower and upper beds, Leisuredrives own side hinged roof. HazChem sign on back. You can see from my avatar it looks like a campervan and DVLA classify it as one and RFL £255 - current value £21,000. However most insurance companies and car part sites still call it a VW T5 Transporter!!! This has caused a few headaches over the years but we have been insured with AIB covering everything (including the awning and kit) but only for leisure use. They do not include for commuting (so couldn't drive to or from work) or business use and won't quote for it. Annual premium £485 inc Europe breakdown recovery.

Here's the craic - we've had Colin for 5 years now and looking to upgrade to a VW California (2014) which I know will set me back around £36k but........I have found a couple of them and run it through insurance websites and was shocked to find I could include for commuting and business use easily and european breakdown and recovery for £200 less than already paying. If I leave out business use it is nearly £250 cheaper! This was a pleasant surprise as we were considering selling my own car and I'd use the Cali for daily driving whereas that wasn't option on Colin so he sat there several weeks a year when not used by us or our boys. So we'd save RFL, servicing and MOT on another vehicle. I've been told this is because if there was an accident there would be no issues pricing up for repairs as all by VW whereas conversion where do you start!! GVW on all Cali's rated at 3,000kg. Type the reg in on any sites and they come up as California as well. Most of the engines (140, 180 and 204hp) are also specific to the Cali and not available in vans - biggest bonus is they retain there value longer than any other vehicle on the road currently!
 
Norfolk Jim said:
.... This has caused a few headaches over the years but we have been insured with AIB covering everything (including the awning and kit) but only for leisure use. They do not include for commuting (so couldn't drive to or from work) or business use and won't quote for it....
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Just a comment on this point .... I had Insurance through AIB on my VW LT and it was insured as a Campervan, but also included Commuting. So that IS possible with AIB - They needed to select a different Undewriter and the cost went up a few (£15 or so?) pounds but it was a simple process.
Other insurers offer Business Use cover on Campers ( Again, I have this in a limited way with my current insurer) so if it is the insurance aspect that is the main driver to change to a "Factory" Motor Caravan, try delving deeper with the Brokers (and speak to them rather then relying on comparision sites) ....
 
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I've just read that DVLA spec - mine has all of these and it all makes sense apart from one thing - it mentions nothing about being able to stand upright inside the vehicle when in habitable use - I'd have thought this was quite an important requirement or it's still effectively a van unless you're a hobbit! Interestingly they state a twin hob and I've seen quite a few DIY conversions with only one. Perhaps they are trying to weed out the chaff and ensure work vans can't simply be emptied and used simply as camper at weekends and attract cheaper RFL. When you look at a conversion like mine you can clearly identify it as a campervan by the roof which can be clearly seen from any angle as being different + as someone else mentioned the vents for cooker and fridge are obvious - I would therefore suggest police or anyone from DVLA would tell the difference from a basic van.
 
wildebus said:
Just a comment on this point .... I had Insurance through AIB on my VW LT and it was insured as a Campervan, but also included Commuting. So that IS possible with AIB - They needed to select a different Undewriter and the cost went up a few (£15 or so?) pounds but it was a simple process.
Other insurers offer Business Use cover on Campers ( Again, I have this in a limited way with my current insurer) so if it is the insurance aspect that is the main driver to change to a "Factory" Motor Caravan, try delving deeper with the Brokers....
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Fair enough Wildebus but a Cali did come up a lot cheaper than anyone else by a reasonable margin - how will DVLA/police deal with that one as sometimes it's hard to spot difference between a California and a Caravelle/minibus!
 
Norfolk Jim said:
Fair enough Wildebus but a Cali did come up a lot cheaper than anyone else by a reasonable margin - how will DVLA/police deal with that one as sometimes it's hard to spot difference between a California and a Caravelle/minibus!
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This whole "the police have to be able to identify... "thing is a total nonsense anyway. It means nothing and is contrary to what the police actually would want to be able to do you would think. If a vehicle is being USED as a Campervan, then surely it is better to have it registered as a Campervan (Motor Caravan) than as a "Van/Side Windows" anyway. But we digress.

An insurance price comparision website will never provide a proper price for any Campervan that did not start life out as a Registered Motor Caravan no matter what the V5C says as they don't use that data to pick up Body Types, so if that is the way you are comparing between the two, you will never get a real picture TBH.
 
It’s quite easy a California has a lift up roof a Caravelle has not. ...unless it’s been converted to a camper there is a large number of Caravelle,s on the road just now more than ever before although expensive it’s an ideal vehicle for family's that have bikes etc and like activity holidays.

Alf

Norfolk Jim said:
Fair enough Wildebus but a Cali did come up a lot cheaper than anyone else by a reasonable margin - how will DVLA/police deal with that one as sometimes it's hard to spot difference between a California and a Caravelle/minibus!
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I still think it's about revenue.
I really do wonder what they reclassify a double decker to.
I suppose body type can stay as 'bus' and tax class Private Heavy Goods?
I'm beginning to come round to DVLA as V5C has two lines - body type (not function) and taxation class.
What Tax Class are Vans with Windows?
 
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