Engine Mapping

[jagmanx]

IF IT WAS a computer program job to re-map

Can you not take it to a main dealer and get them to "ReMap it back to factory settings"

BUT if the fuel pump is duff ???

 

[Carrerasax]

Some of the odern VAG common rail diesels pull nearly 40 mph per 1000rpm.
80 mph cruise at peak torque - fuel consumption to match.
Anyway the Fiat Ducato based are too high geared for their weight which combined with the relatively low torque capacity of the gearbox probably explains the general issues one reads about.
It could well be that the post 2006 boxes are better because Fiat put more powerful engines in themselves.

Ducato 2.3 diesels come as 130,150&180bhp I think.
So presumably same gearbox and gearing but even with my 150 I find I need to Change down to 5th for slightest incline even at 50+ cruising speed!!!
180 would I feel give better power and economy as not working so hard.
Anyone know anything technical about this???

 

[jagmanx]

Ducato 2.3 diesels come as 130,150&180bhp I think.
So presumably same gearbox and gearing but even with my 150 I find I need to Change down to 5th for slightest incline even at 50+ cruising speed!!!
180 would I feel give better power and economy as not working so hard.
Anyone know anything technical about this???

AS you say change down to 5th I assume 6 (forward Gears)
I have 6 gears with my renault master 2.5dci.
In some ways 6th gear is almost an overdrive and is great on Motorways and fast dual carriageway.
Happy enough to use gear 5 as conditions (and rpm) dictate.
I did have a "Tunit plug-in device" which I used in partial economy mode. ( level 3 out of 10)
It cost me £120 (refurbished)
It worked well for 5 years then gave up..Simply unplugged it.
I will not bother with another @ £300 or more

 

[in h]

IF IT WAS a computer program job to re-map

Can you not take it to a main dealer and get them to "ReMap it back to factory settings"

BUT if the fuel pump is duff ???

If you have a faulty pump, that would not fix it, but would lose the remap you paid for.
If you don't have a faulty fuel pump, it's unlikely the remapper would do it again for free if you had it undone elsewhere.
The only case that would make sense would be if the pump was marginal and could cope without the remap, but not with. You can replicate that to test by driving very gently for an hour or two.

 

[Clarkey]

Ah, yes. You're right. I'd hoped that he might have a way to disable it, but that sounds unlikely. I chose a separate box because of that, but that gave its own issues, as it turned out.
Chances are it is the pump, but at that sort of price, it would maybe make sense to get the pump tested before replacing it.
I'd have though a simple test should cost no more than £100, but that's just my wild guess, not based on any knowledge of the engine.

Thanks for that I didn’t realise I could get it tested, I’ll have a look into it and see if I can find anywhere that does it.
Cheers
Lee

 

[jagmanx]

If you have a faulty pump, that would not fix it, but would lose the remap you paid for.
If you don't have a faulty fuel pump, it's unlikely the remapper would do it again for free if you had it undone elsewhere.
The only case that would make sense would be if the pump was marginal and could cope without the remap, but not with. You can replicate that to test by driving very gently for an hour or two.

In effect that is what I was suggesting.
If the remapping has caused the problem
Ie the fuel pump cannot cope
Surely better to go back to before the remap !

 

[in h]

If the fuel pump is faulty, reducing the load will just put off its failure for a while. Perhaps not at all.
Better to find the problem and fix it.

 

[jagmanx]

Not just reducing the load but maybe reverting to what is was built/designed for !
Many perfectly servicible items will run at 80% load "forever" but if you run them at 100% or more too often and/or for too long. Then they will fail.

 

[in h]

Not just reducing the load but maybe reverting to what is was built/designed for !
Many perfectly servicible items will run at 80% load "forever" but if you run them at 100% or more too often and/or for too long. Then they will fail.

Engines aren't like that. They spend most of their time trundling gently, with brief bursts of hard work. And the same is even more true for load-related components, such as fuel pumps.
I've had fuel pumps fail and still be able to drive, but only accelerating very gently and not exceeding 35mph. Hills, you just crawl up.

 

[jagmanx]

Precisely my points !

 

[Clarkey]

Engines aren't like that. They spend most of their time trundling gently, with brief bursts of hard work. And the same is even more true for load-related components, such as fuel pumps.
I've had fuel pumps fail and still be able to drive, but only accelerating very gently and not exceeding 35mph. Hills, you just crawl up.

Most of the time it does drive fine and I don’t drive it fast to be fair, I just needed more power to get me up hills etc, but even when driving at a steady 60-65mph it just suddenly goes into limp mode. Strangely when I need the extra power to get up hills it’s fine

 

[in h]

t even when driving at a steady 60-65mph it just suddenly goes into limp mode. Strangely when I need the extra power to get up hills it’s fine

Hmm. Doesn't sound like a simple fuel pump problem, then. Unless it is a problem with whatever regulates the output of the fuel pump. At £800+ I'd get the pump checked as the first step, then think about what to do next.
Remember, you don't have to build a complete plan on the basis of limited info: get more info, then re-plan.

 

[in h]

In effect that is what I was suggesting.
If the remapping has caused the problem
Ie the fuel pump cannot cope
Surely better to go back to before the remap !

And if the remap didn't cause the problem?
That sounds more likely, if it is failing when not under max load, which is where the remap would make the biggest difference.

 

[Clarkey]

Hmm. Doesn't sound like a simple fuel pump problem, then. Unless it is a problem with whatever regulates the output of the fuel pump. At £800+ I'd get the pump checked as the first step, then think about what to do next.
Remember, you don't have to build a complete plan on the basis of limited info: get more info, then re-plan.

Thanks for all the help and info I really appreciate it, I will look into getting the pump checked before I do anything else.
Cheers
Lee

 

[Clarkey]

And if the remap didn't cause the problem?
That sounds more likely, if it is failing when not under max load, which is where the remap would make the biggest difference.

Thanks for the advice it’s really appreciated, I think that is what the guy who did is trying to tell me, so I’ll look into getting the pump tested before I jump into buying a new pump.
Cheers
Lee

 

[Markd]

Hi all, I had my be crafter re mapped from about 115bhp to about 150-160 ish

That's a big lift and the fault code may be because the pump can't deliver the fuel volume-pressure being demanded by the map rather than being faulty.
Are there particular driving conditions that trigger the limp mode?
As inh says you will need more data before you just swap out the HP pump.
I don't think that changing the pump will affect the map which is stored on the ECU.

 

[Deleted member 2062]

Re-mapping can be very successful if done properly by well known company. I had nearly all of my Saab's done. 1st 2 petrol 9-5 aero's from 250 - 300hp by Saab tuner Hirsch. That came with lifetime warranty and was available on cars when new and didn't invalidate car warranty. I had my 9-3 Aero TTiD taken from 180 - 220 with big torque gains all within component safety limit. My T5 Camper came as standard VW 1.9 engine with 84 bhp. I had that done by Celtic and taken up to 130 with excellent results - it was needed as really underpowered for 3000kg loaded. Now safe entering motorway and all components can easily take it. Not only acceleration brilliant but fuel economy went up considerably now averaging high 30's - low 40's on motorway - was done at 35k and now has 70k with no issues ever. VW make a california ocean with twin turbo and 204 hp. Same engine and running gear as the beach which has 150 but one turbo. I have a 11 plate Nissan X Trail Tekna 6 speed manual which as standard comes 173hp - auto's have 150. Celtic took mine from 173 - 221 with decent increase in torque - before doing re-map they give the vehicle a good check over, upload existing map to their system and then after about 20 mins download remap to the car directly. Process took around 45 minutes and they then give a good warranty. Car is even more of a pleasure to drive requiring less throttle to get a move on and at 70 - 80 it's now giving me high 40's mpg. What's nice is at 50 you can happily overtake in 6th gear with no worries. 70mph is just under 2000 rpm. Interestingly the auto which has same engine but tuned down to 150 can only slightly be increased to ensure auto box is safe. My clutch and gearbox and 4WD system works perfectly at now 175k miles. Yes if I really wanted I can out accelerate most cars including BMW 320's and 520' and a lot of Audi's as the 60 run is around 8.5 seconds but it's mid range like the Saab's where it all really happens. But hey it's a 4x4 not a racer but then again it will go literally anywhere in any weather! I say go for it as it does increase driving pleasure meaning less gear changing etc and better mpg; but go to genuine company who know what they are doing.

Couldn't find a 2.3 180 only a 3.0 177 here https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/serv...-2012-ECU-remap-chiptuning/stage-1#t3-content

 

[Clarkey]

That's a big lift and the fault code may be because the pump can't deliver the fuel volume-pressure being demanded by the map rather than being faulty.
Are there particular driving conditions that trigger the limp mode?
As inh says you will need more data before you just swap out the HP pump.
I don't think that changing the pump will affect the map which is stored on the ECU.

Hi mark, it seems to go into limp mode when driving steady 60-65 ish it does sometimes do it when i put my foot down to overtake someone but also it can go into limp mode when just cruising.
My local may have a fuel pump for me thats coming off a crafter thats having a full engine replacement that i can have for free so hopefully iether way it will sort it or i will know that its not the pump that’s the problem, then i can go back the re mapper.

 

[snapster]

Blimey, my 130bhp 2.3 Ducato ( 3850kg) gets up even the longest steepest hills in Northern France by just changing down to 5th as long as I accelerate to over 65mph before I start climbing. I can’t imagine the power available with a 180 never mind a remapped 180

 

[Markd]

It does sound as if the pump or its pressure regulator is suspect given the variety of failure conditions.
A free pump to use as a test of the theory doesn't sound too bad.