Hydrogen trains now

Yup, OP also means Original Post.


And I also tryped the wrong bloody thing, I'd just been reading the one where the Jap bike companies were collaborating.

I am guilty of a goofing, profuse apologetics to all.

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If they ever get wave power going properly instead of endless expensive trials that will help, and wind farms should be doing more than they are, I can see 25 from here and half the time even with the wind they are parked, I'm sure we produce and waste loads of energy that could go towards production, but we do need more joined up thinking for sure.

How Much Primary Energy Is Wasted Before Consumers See Value from Electricity? - Enerdynamics

How much of the primary energy that goes into creating electricity actual provides useful work to us as consumers? According to the EIA, 66% of the primary energy used to create electricity is wasted by the time the electricity arrives at the customer meter. So where does the wasted energy go?
www.enerdynamics.com
 
Some experts have deduced that small Nuclear generators in larger numbers are a much better answer to a more reliable and efficient system. Long distance transmission losses seem to cause a big drop in efficiency according to that article.
 
Pudsey Bear said:
If they ever get wave power going properly instead of endless expensive trials that will help, and wind farms should be doing more than they are, I can see 25 from here and half the time even with the wind they are parked, I'm sure we produce and waste loads of energy that could go towards production, but we do need more joined up thinking for sure.

How Much Primary Energy Is Wasted Before Consumers See Value from Electricity? - Enerdynamics

How much of the primary energy that goes into creating electricity actual provides useful work to us as consumers? According to the EIA, 66% of the primary energy used to create electricity is wasted by the time the electricity arrives at the customer meter. So where does the wasted energy go?
www.enerdynamics.com
Click to expand...
Surely the endless expensive trials are the only way to find out what works best.
 
korky said:
Surely the endless expensive trials are the only way to find out what works best.
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Yes of course but when are they going to actually build some for actual use, it was first put forward in 1799 by the French and again in 1910,
 
The French have used tidal power to generate electricity for many years. The Severn Estuary could do the same, probably on a muuch bigger scale but there are too many objections to the scheme.
 
Jump to content
This might help if it really works.

Scientists create machine that harvests clean energy out of thin air​

The fingernail-sized contraption is made from a material filled with holes less than a thousandth of the width of a human hair



A graphic image of a thin film of protein nanowires generating electricity from atmospheric humidity

A graphic image of a thin film of protein nanowires generating electricity from atmospheric humidity CREDIT: Yao and Lovley labs, University of Massachusetts Amherst/Yao and Lovley labs, University of Massachusetts Amherst
Scientists have created a cloud device that can harvest clean electricity from the humidity in air, an academic paper reveals.
The fingernail-sized contraption, called Air-gen, is made from a material filled with holes less than a thousandth of the width of a human hair.
The holes, called nanopores, make clean power by harvesting the energy from electrically charged water in the air that passes through them.
Essentially, the device harnesses the power in clouds that make lightning.

'Human-built, small-scale cloud'​

Dr Jun Yao, the senior author from Massachusetts University in the US, said: “The air contains an enormous amount of electricity. Think of a cloud, which is nothing more than a mass of water droplets.
"Each of those droplets contains a charge, and when conditions are right, the cloud can produce a lightning bolt - but we don't know how to reliably capture electricity from lightning.
"What we've done is to create a human-built, small-scale cloud that produces electricity for us predictably and continuously so that we can harvest it."
The technique can be scaled up for use in numerous different environments, from an Amazon rainforest to the Sahara Desert.

Clean energy everywhere​

Dr Yao added: "Imagine a future world in which clean electricity is available anywhere you go.
"The generic Air-gen effect means that this future world can become a reality."
Three years ago the same team showed how electricity could be continuously harvested from the air using a specialised material made of protein nanowires grown from the bacterium Geobacter sulfurreducens.
Graduate student Xiaomeng Liu, lead author of the latest study, which has been published in Advanced Materials, said: "This is very exciting. We are opening up a wide door for harvesting clean electricity from thin air."
They said the breakthrough could be used to tackle the climate emergency by bringing widespread commercialisation of electric vehicles a step closer.

Harvesting electricity from the air​

Dr Yao said: "What we realised after making the Geobacter discovery is the ability to generate electricity from the air - what we then called the 'Air-gen effect' - turns out to be generic.
"Literally any kind of material can harvest electricity from air - as long as it has a certain property.
"It just needs to have holes smaller than 100 nm (nanometers) - or less than a thousandth of the width of a human hair.”
This is because of a parameter known as the "mean free path" - the distance a single molecule of water travels in air before it bumps into another.
The researchers found they could design an electricity harvester based around this number made from a thin layer of material filled with nanopores smaller than 100nm.

New possibilities​

They would let water molecules pass from the upper to the lower part of the material.
Each pore is so small they would easily bump into the edge as they pass through - meaning the upper part would be bombarded with many more charge-carrying water molecules than the lower.
It creates a charge imbalance, like those found in a cloud, as the upper part increased its charge relative to the lower part, creating a battery.
Dr Yao said: "The idea is simple but it's never been discovered before - and it opens all kinds of possibilities."
 
maingate said:
The French have used tidal power to generate electricity for many years. The Severn Estuary could do the same, probably on a muuch bigger scale but there are too many objections to the scheme.
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Yes, but it's not on a large enough scale, GB has so much wave available.
 
Edinburgh based Pelamis were involved with the manu of wave power generation, these companies take what money they can from government and private investors, take their project as far as they can, then move the investments on, which leaves the original innovator with a healthy bank balance, fair do's.

Nova Energy is another Edinburgh based innovative company.
 
korky said:
I think they have found it not viable to scale up at present. If it was viable and there is money to be made it would be happenning.
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It hopefully will happen one day once big business sees the chance of making profits, we certainly need it to happen sooner rather than later, we can already see signs of shortages of water, oil & gas eventually people will be fighting over it more and more.
 
Pudsey Bear said:
If they ever get wave power going properly instead of endless expensive trials that will help, and wind farms should be doing more than they are, I can see 25 from here and half the time even with the wind they are parked, I'm sure we produce and waste loads of energy that could go towards production, but we do need more joined up thinking for sure.
Click to expand...

Pudsey Bear said:
I wonder what went wrong there?
A few years ago a guy came up with a thing which he called a duck and it worked. the scheme was killed by ignoramuses who just did not understand it and once dead it is near impossible to revive these things. It took just about all the energy out of the waves. A secondary benefit of that Duck was that the water behind it was almost devoid of waves so safer for water users and less damaging to coastal defences etc.
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Well remembered, Pudsey,I wish I had a decent memory, yes killed by idiots. It could be revived, though. I wonder why not as it definitely worked though maybe not quite as efficiently as at first thought.
 
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