Would you buy a new EVan, with 300 is mile rang?

Reminded me of when I was working for an American outfit in Jeddah. One of the bosses in the main office had a high end Toyota. It had an intermittent fault and came to my workshop to be checked out. Even for 1986, it was quite complicated and nothing was obvious. I convinced my Manager to send it to the main Toyota dealer as they had the diagnostic equipment to plug it in and find the problem. It came back about 2 weeks later with an enormous bill to pay. My Manager stormed over waving the invoice and when I opened the boot, it was chock full of parts they had changed, including half of the wiring harness.
 
There again, there is a main franchised Nissan dealer in Coventry who tried to convince me that they hadn't changed the spark plugs on my petrol car "Because your car has a diesel engine, SIR, and diesel engines don't have spark plugs".
What hope have they got of servicing an electric car? They probably charge the EV customer for changing the spark plugs . . . .
 
@gasgas
Well in 2016 Swmbo took our first EV to Furrows KIA in Shrewsbury for its second service which involved them charging an excessive amount for simple diy stuff like changing the pollen filter and telling us how much tread were on the tyres.

When she went to pay the said already excessive amount the personage on the service desk thought the bill was not expensive enough after realising they had not included the oil filter and oil so went off to correct it....

Fortunately Swmbo is technically savvy and pointed out the obvious!
Service desk personage still went to double check though...
 
Right. So that's Furrows KIA off the menu then for going to get a car. :eek:
If Swmbo had had her wits about her, she should have said "Tell you what, if you let me watch you change the oil filter, I'll pay for it". And come to that, did they charge for 5 litres of 10/30 oil to go with the filter?
What is surprising there, is that KIA is supposed to be one of the absolute best of electric cars, so you would think their dealers would be at least competent if not actually enthusiastic.
There again, when my Nissan dealer told me I had a diesel car which didn't have spark plugs, after some consideration and further inspection they decided that "Your car has a Wankel engine, SIR and we don't do Wankel engines". I almost screamed at the service girlie that my engine has four round cylinders and each cylinder has a piston, four valves and a spark plug. They then went back for another look and concluded "We don't know how". So I had to buy my own plugs that I had paid them for, go home and change them on my driveway. And they have got a brightly lit, air conditioned, coffee machine equipped, six ramp service workshop with painted floor, background music and much technician training expenses but they can't change spark plugs. I am ashamed to say I was so taken aback with their incompetence that I failed to write to the MD and demand a full refund of the service fee they had charged.

Before I 'bought' (on a 2 yr pcp) the Leaf I asked one of the salesmen what was involved in servicing an EV. He said the most complicated part of an EV service is pumping up the tyres.
Didn't stop them from charging me to change the brake fluid after 1 year. I don't suppose for one minute that they did. Their technician would have said "This is an electric car so it has electric brakes, and electric brakes don't have brake fluid, SIR".
 
The usual scam is to top up the windscreen washers with fluid costing twenty times what it is in the motor factors. A
 
Sir Anthony Bamford, just gave 20,000 workers a extra day off yesterday to celebrate 80 years of JCB, there is another video on hydrogen at JCB on the Harry's garage or Harry's farm channel.
 
There is a rumour going around that EV owners are going to be hit hard in the upcoming budget. A weight tax and pay per mile could be introduced. The pay per mile because of the loss of fuel tax (that is included in the petrol/diesel cost is given as the reason). The weight tax is just a money grabbing excuse.
 
There is a rumour going around that EV owners are going to be hit hard in the upcoming budget. A weight tax and pay per mile could be introduced. The pay per mile because of the loss of fuel tax (that is included in the petrol/diesel cost is given as the reason). The weight tax is just a money grabbing excuse.
So those who can't charge at home and are already paying more per mile for 'fuel' than for an equivalent ICEV are to be hit with a double whammy! Public chargers are already taxed at 20% VAT rate on a tariff considerably more than domestic electricity while those charging at home get subsidised tariffs and only pay 5% VAT. If they're going to recoup lost fuel duty, the only fair way IMO is to levy at least full VAT on electricity used to charge at home. For complete fairness, they'd also need to levy an equivalent fuel duty on that electricity used for EV charging (that's 14p / kWh + VAT assuming a car does 60mpg and an EV does 3.5 m/kWh)
 
So those who can't charge at home and are already paying more per mile for 'fuel' than for an equivalent ICEV are to be hit with a double whammy! Public chargers are already taxed at 20% VAT rate on a tariff considerably more than domestic electricity while those charging at home get subsidised tariffs and only pay 5% VAT. If they're going to recoup lost fuel duty, the only fair way IMO is to levy at least full VAT on electricity used to charge at home. For complete fairness, they'd also need to levy an equivalent fuel duty on that electricity used for EV charging (that's 14p / kWh + VAT assuming a car does 60mpg and an EV does 3.5 m/kWh)
That is correct. It will work out more expensive to run an EV than an ICE for many people and will be the end of EV vehicles being bought. That was the whole point of the video I watched and the owner of the YT channel was picturing the scene when Rachel bumped into Ed Millipede. :ROFLMAO: I will PM you the channel as I find it very entertaining (although you probably already watch it. 😁
 
There is a rumour going around that EV owners are going to be hit hard in the upcoming budget
Yes it is fairly despicable.
In the past, budget proposals were kept secret until the Chancellor read it out on budget day.

Now, many ideas are quietly but deliberately leaked to see how much public outrage they evoke, despite there being no detail on which to form an opinion. Because it was a leak, the ideas can be dropped without political embarrassment.

The gutter press and populist politicians play a similar game, trying to build up anger against imagined, unannounced policies

The anger sticks even after the policies are shown to have never existed.

Personally, I think pay per mile seems like it might be a good idea, depending on how it is charged.

EVs do more damage to roads than ICE of the same size. They cause as many injury accidents, but are exempt from fuel duty and get a VAT discount.

They even pollute almost as much. Most pollution from modern cars is tyre dust, not exhaust fumes.

As the proportion of EVs goes up, something has to fill the gap.

But how to do it? I can't see it as feasible...

A tracker on every car? Too intrusive and technically difficult. Easy to jam.

NPR cameras everywhere? Too expensive. Would miss lots of journeys.

MOT mileage reading? Would not cover the first three years.

I think the practical difficulties in implementing pay per mile make ot a non-starter.
 
A tracker on every car? Too intrusive and technically difficult. Easy to jam.
All modern vehicles already have this. If your car has eCall (emergency SOS button), which has been mandatory for some years, the chances are that your car is already sending masses of data back to the manufacturer (GPS location, acceleration, speed, etc. -- enough for after the fact tracking). It would just take a change in legislation for the government to demand access to that data and hence be able to use it not only for pay-per-mile, but also for enforcement of speeding and other transgressions. They've already done this with computer OS companies (as noted by the Apple backdoor fiasco).

MOT mileage reading? Would not cover the first three years.
The first three years would not need additional coverage since every car under three years old is already being tracked...
 
New car owners could be made to give mileage reading when renewing road tax. They could then give you the option to pay the tax monthly over the next year.
This new digital ID system will know exactly where you have been and could send a bill instead. The possibilities are endless.
 
GPS is trivially easy to jam. Odometer readings are not so hard to alter.
I don't have confidence that there is a reliable, cheap, foolproof answer at present.
 
GPS is trivially easy to jam. Odometer readings are not so hard to alter.
I don't have confidence that there is a reliable, cheap, foolproof answer at present.
Well, the digital ID scheme is very far from foolproof. Done on the cheap and vulnerable.
 
GPS jamming might be trivial, there's still the question of how to stop the car from reporting mileage -- it just needs a mobile phone signal for less than a minute. If different roads have different tolls (pay-per-mile rates), the default will probably be the most expensive and so you'd only be robbing yourself by jamming the GPS signal. While the odometer reading might be relatively easy to alter *on the dashboard*, the odometer reading is stored in multiple locations on modern cars (there's more than one ECU) and a warning appears if they don't all tally. AFAICT, the only way to resolve this is for the car to be returned to the main dealer to have all set to the highest value CAN blockers exist that can prevent mileage from being added to the odometer, but there are other proxies (operating time, engine performance data, etc.) that can have alarm bells ringing and I have little doubt that the Government might be quick to prosecute for tax fraud on the basis of that data...
While you might not have confidence in there being a reliable, cheap foolproof answer, that's rarely (if ever) been a showstopper for bureaucracy!
 
.This new digital ID system will know exactly where you have been and could send a bill instead. The possibilities are endless.
This is utterly irrelevant and wrong. So wrong thst I struggle to see how you can be so misled into linking it.

Firstly, the proposed digital ID will got have any location tracking in it - government IT couldn't handle thst much data if it did.

Secondly, the proposed digital ID is an app on a phone, which you could switch off or leave at home.

Thirdly, the pay per mile is for the vehicle, not someone who travels in it.
 
This is utterly irrelevant and wrong. So wrong thst I struggle to see how you can be so misled into linking it.

Firstly, the proposed digital ID will got have any location tracking in it - government IT couldn't handle thst much data if it did.

Secondly, the proposed digital ID is an app on a phone, which you could switch off or leave at home.

Thirdly, the pay per mile is for the vehicle, not someone who travels in it.
I started replying to the points you made, then I thought that I am flogging a dead horse here. So, fair enough, we agree to differ and that's an end to it.
 
I started replying to the points you made, then I thought that I am flogging a dead horse here. So, fair enough, we agree to differ and that's an end to it.
Agreed. FWIW, I started to point out that the 'digital ID' doesn't need an app on the phone and a large proportion of the population have already been onboarded (if you've agreed for government departments to share your data -- e.g. allowing DVLA access to HMRC data when accessing your driving licence online -- the chances are that you are already onboarded). Started to write about facial recognition and how plans exist to leverage cameras in shops etc. as well as the CCTV that's infesting our streets. About the new roadside cameras that not only record average speed but also 'mobile phone use', seatbelt non-use, etc. and are fully capable of implementing facial recognition to identify both the driver and front-seat passenger. However, as you pointed out, that would be flogging a dead horse!

 
How does anyone of that address the points I made?
It doesn't.
Carry on with your ludicrous conspiracy theories. I've worked in enough government IT to know how hopeless it is.
 
How does anyone of that address the points I made?
It doesn't.
Carry on with your ludicrous conspiracy theories. I've worked in enough government IT to know how hopeless it is.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: And that is exactly why nobody wants this Poundland system to ever happen.
 
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