lithium fire

wildebus said:
I don't recall the specifics of the LPG one (there have been a few "fire due to lpg refuel" ones) other than someone pointing out the impossibility of it being due to a refuelling. And I don't think there is any connection whatsover between the two events (not sure why you thought I did?).
The point I attempted to make is about the level of misinformation that gets posted around the internet, either accidentally or deliberately, and then perpetrated and regurgitated as facts.
I take just about anything I see on Social Media with a large pinch of salt and the phrase "the camera never lies" is now so incredibly wrong it beggers belief.
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I wasn't pointing a finger David. I made the observation that, in this case, a lpg point was adjacent to the vehicle on fire at Morrisons.
 
Trotter said:
I wasn't pointing a finger David. I made the observation that, in this case, a lpg point was adjacent to the vehicle on fire at Morrisons.
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The Wellingborough Morrisons fire did involve lpg and there is some credibility about it involving an attempt to fill a non refillable bottle. Where the earlier thread went astray was when another fire at Weymouth was also attributed to lpg but Morrisons at Weymouth does not sell pumped lpg.
 
Does everyone know why it is illegal to refill non-refillable gas bottles? If there's anyone reading this who doesn't know, I can explain, but I don't want to bore everyone else. Refillable bottles have a float valve inside which shuts off the filling point at 80% full.


However, it is obvious that non-refillable bottles are in fact refillable, otherwise how would you ever get a replacement bottle of Calor Gas? On the Isle of Man you can take your empty non-refillable LPG bottle to a depot and they will refill it. You can stand behind two layers of 15ft high fencing with locked gates and watch. The operative places the empty, or nearly empty or even half full bottle on a weighing machine. He knows the Tare weight of the container, because it is standard for that size of bottle. He connects a filling nozzle and pumps in sufficient LPG to bring the bottle up to the standard weight for that size. This will be the 80% full point. You pays your money, and you get your full bottle of gas back.
If any of you are familiar with the IOM, the huge golf ball thing at the docks is an LPG tank. In our gas training we were told that if it goes bang, the whole of Douglas will disappear. :eek:
 
Okta said:
The Wellingborough Morrisons fire did involve lpg and there is some credibility about it involving an attempt to fill a non refillable bottle. Where the earlier thread went astray was when another fire at Weymouth was also attributed to lpg but Morrisons at Weymouth does not sell pumped lpg.
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I haven’t found anything that says that this the case, although everything seems to point to that way. Nothing in the local papers anyway.
I do know of people who continue to refill calor bottles themselves. I can remember, only a couple of years ago, Morrisons refused to let any motorhome refill lpg, because of illegal filing.
I’ll try to fill my Gas-it bottle at Morrisons Binley this morning. In the full expectation of being refused.
A refusal would be another example of, the few spoiling it for the many.
 
Trotter said:
.....
I’ll try to fill my Gas-it bottle at Morrisons Binley this morning. In the full expectation of being refused.
.......
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I think the dividing line between being refused or allowed, is if you have an external filling point for the Gas-it, GasLow or for example an AutoSleeper with a built-in external filler. You are much more likely to be refused if you take the bottle out of the locker and try to fill it on the ground. The attendant will think you are refilling a non refillable bottle. This is the down side of having a Safefill bottle, although Safefill claim to have an agreement with Morrisons to allow their bottles to be refilled.
The basic problem we have in this country is that camp sites are so expensive, and aires non-existent that there is no reason for foreigners to want to come here, and by extension, very little demand for LPG stations. Whereas in Europe with far more motorhomes there is enough demand for LPG stations.
 
gasgas said:
I think the dividing line between being refused or allowed, is if you have an external filling point for the Gas-it, GasLow or for example an AutoSleeper with a built-in external filler. You are much more likely to be refused if you take the bottle out of the locker and try to fill it on the ground. The attendant will think you are refilling a non refillable bottle. This is the down side of having a Safefill bottle, although Safefill claim to have an agreement with Morrisons to allow their bottles to be refilled.
The basic problem we have in this country is that camp sites are so expensive, and aires non-existent that there is no reason for foreigners to want to come here, and by extension, very little demand for LPG stations. Whereas in Europe with far more motorhomes there is enough demand for LPG stations.
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Agreed!
Also, no problem at Morrisons Binley . £0. 79p
 
That would be the Under Seat model (SB = Seat Base) version.

Never been keen on the idea of a metal-cased battery in a fitting that will be shaking and vibrating so much as happens in a vehicle :(
 
wildebus said:
That would be the Under Seat model (SB = Seat Base) version.

Never been keen on the idea of a metal-cased battery in a fitting that will be shaking and vibrating so much as happens in a vehicle :(
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I don't have this model, but liked the metal case as if part of the battery stops working you can unscrew the lid and change the duff bit...

Swings and roundabouts maybe 🤔
 
St3v3 said:
I don't have this model, but liked the metal case as if part of the battery stops working you can unscrew the lid and change the duff bit...

Swings and roundabouts maybe 🤔
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We are going a bit off-topic here, but the ability to remove the case to service the battery internals does not mean you also have to have a metal case :)
Both my current Lithiums (Explorer Polarmax 100Ah Lithiums) and my previous ones (Poweroad Infiniti) were plastic cased with removable lids

IMG_20220503_144137_9 by David, on Flickr
Absolutely a useful feature 100%. Best of both worlds.
 
The one they have recalled appears to have the terminals on the side. Perhaps this was the cause of the fire that has lead to the recall, possibly a short if the battery shifts into contact with the under seat metal frame? It won’t be anything to do with the cells because they have only recalled one model and similar cells will be used throughout their range.
 
Okta said:
It won’t be anything to do with the cells because they have only recalled one model and similar cells will be used throughout their range.
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Only partly correct, the battery in question is one of their new range (since being taken over by an Irish company) which utilises prismatic cells and not the cylindrical cells that the original KS batteries used.
That said there is no suggestion that the cell type were at fault, the original KS under seat battery ( KS-SB200B) has the terminals at the top of battery, not on the side as in (KS-SB210) the one in question.
 
wildebus said:
We are going a bit off-topic here, but the ability to remove the case to service the battery internals does not mean you also have to have a metal case :)
Both my current Lithiums (Explorer Polarmax 100Ah Lithiums) and my previous ones (Poweroad Infiniti) were plastic cased with removable lids

IMG_20220503_144137_9 by David, on Flickr
Absolutely a useful feature 100%. Best of both worlds.
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I was interested by your comments and decided to have a look at them so went to the Alpha web site, only to find that they no longer have removeable lids.
 
eurajohn said:
I was interested by your comments and decided to have a look at them so went to the Alpha web site, only to find that they no longer have removeable lids.
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really. I was definately not aware of that and a little disappointed to hear. I will ask Alpha Batteries if there is a reason. (having said that, the last time I was speaking to them, it was mentioned there was a different supplier so maybe that is the reason? I really liked that servicability aspect!)
 
eurajohn said:
I was interested by your comments and decided to have a look at them so went to the Alpha web site, only to find that they no longer have removeable lids.
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updated reply....
I went to the website and I see they are a new Polarmax battery in a different case AND significantly cheaper (now £499, were £600!).
But looking at the case, it looks to me like they do have removable lids? Those hex/allen key bolts in the corners?
XPL12-100_POLARMAX_3.jpeg
 
wildebus said:
I am amused (not by the fire and the loss of the van though) that people are reading the words in the posted screenshot and thinking it must be true.
There is so much misinformation posted - often deliberately - on any kind of event, and the amount of folk who are suckered into it is amazing. The BBC have had to start a new team of people called "BBC Verify" just to check if what is posted is accurate as so many people take everything at face value (have a read of this about the BBC Verify team & service - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65650822)
Remember the thread here on on WC where someone posted a screenshot of a fire at a Service Station due to a campervan refilling his LPG bottles? The fact that the Service Station didn't even sell LPG seemed to be irrelevant.
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If that was the screenshot of the fire at Morrisons in Wellingborough, it was LPG and it was when the camper owner was filling! I know, I was there, stuck in the carpark.
 
Rumour said:
If that was the screenshot of the fire at Morrisons in Wellingborough, it was LPG and it was when the camper owner was filling! I know, I was there, stuck in the carpark.
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There was another one posted of an "LPG Refuelling Fire" in a non-LPG station. Try and Keep up!
 
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eurajohn said:
Only partly correct, the battery in question is one of their new range (since being taken over by an Irish company) which utilises prismatic cells and not the cylindrical cells that the original KS batteries used.
That said there is no suggestion that the cell type were at fault, the original KS under seat battery ( KS-SB200B) has the terminals at the top of battery, not on the side as in (KS-SB210) the one in question.
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That is interesting but as you say there is no suggestion that cell type is at fault. They would both be LiFePO4.
 
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