How Safe are our vehicles, in particular EVs?

[Pudsey Bear]

We had a Kia once, Cee'd 3 nice little car looked a bit like a VW sirocco in candy blue, had two years warranty on it when we got it, we had brake problems twice which they sorted, they only bug bear we had was the noise from the back it has zero sound deadening in the floor and sides of the "boot".

 

[CriftinsCampers]

I probably would. But not the fashionista cars like Tesla. We only use our car for fairly short journeys, so an EV would suit. But it would be a Kia. I have a Kia at the moment, it has been a fantastic car. And looking at the Kia bumf, it has the same 7 year, 100,000 mile warranty.

(I would really like a Stinger, the Kia M3 eater! But 'er indoors says at 72, I am too old to kill myself!)

I am on my 2nd Soul EV, kept the first one for 6 years and sold it just before their second hand prices dropped significantly, sub 100 mile range cars especially using type one connectors and Chademo are becoming a bit Betamax vs VHS now!

We now have a Soul FE which has three times the range of the previous car, 0-60 in 7 seconds is more than adequate and is my attempt at being Green to offset the diabolical fuel consumption of the Crafter!

 

[tonybvi]

I actually did things the wrong way round by buying my first EV four years ago for long haul journeys. It is a Tesla but purchased because of their excellent and rapidly expanding supercharger infrastructure (as well as it being a lovely car!) which enables me to make effortless journeys to the south coast from Aberdeen. Until the long haul route infrastructure (ie rapid or super fast chargers) is improved I would not recommend an EV for long haul EV trips at the moment. Note that Tesla are slowly opening up their network to non-Teslas.

An EV for local journeys is a much more sensible proposition IF you are fortunate enough to be able to install a home charger or do so few miles that you can charge at home with a “granny charger” (ie 16amp) and your domestic wiring is robust enough. Our little Fiat 500E has only ever been charged at home and only at night on my off peak rate of 4.5p/kWh so as cheap as chips. A much more sensible vehicle than the Tesla!

 

[Heppy]

I’ve just bought a 9 month old Vauxhall Mokka e ( sadly the owner from new passed away ) All our driving apart from the 2 trips per year to the airport are no more than a 150 mls return. Perfect charging at home with the Granny lead overnight in the garage. Not an expensive Ev but a lovely car to drive with enough grunt for this old guy.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

We had one on hire, Petrol, it might be a good car but it was useless on snowy roads, took it back and got an insignia, no problems at all on snow, I think EVs have a bit more trickery to cope with bad conditions.

 

[CriftinsCampers]

@Heppy make sure the three pin plug connection remain scrupulously clean very easy for them to overheat due to high current for hours at a time.
I personally would never use a granny repeatedly long term they aren't designed for that if you do then consider fitting an 16A iec 309 instead

Also try to find out how efficient the cars OBC is, the one in my first EV was 90% efficient at 7.2Kw but only only 67% efficient at 10A so a lot more energy and hence money never got into the actual battery.

 

[Heppy]

The car has an 11kw OBC but not sure how efficient that is.
When I charge overnight it puts 5% back in every hour which is sufficient for our current motoring.

 

[GeoffL]

The car has an 11kw OBC but not sure how efficient that is.
When I charge overnight it puts 5% back in every hour which is sufficient for our current motoring.

The research I've done this far suggests that OBCs are the least efficient way to charge an EV. Charge efficiency could be as low as 75% and the reference below suggests that a 7kW or 22kW DC charger should be more efficient. That said, you can pay for a lot of 'wasted' electricity with the price of installing a home charger (less any grants available).

EV Charging Losses: Where The Energy Goes & Why - Charging Efficiency | go-e

Why are there charging losses when charging an EV? And what can you do to minimise the energy loss? Read the article!

go-e.com

 

[CriftinsCampers]

That’s an interesting article @GeoffL when I bought our Soul in 2016 the first thing I did was compare its AC charging efficiency at different rates, Kia also published the OBC efficiency in the cars service manual but like all manufacturers it’s not included where it ought to be I.e the tech specs in the sales brochure!

Many on the popular speakev forum seemingly live in denial with their heads in the sand and I wouldn’t be surprised if most people buying EVs think there’s no losses at all.

The article says “The German automobile club called ADAC even made a requirement for EV manufacturers to include charging losses to the general technical information.”

I hope that is the case I have never seen similar info on losses provided for any cars sold in the uk unfortunately.

 

[Geek]

Note that Tesla are slowly opening up their network to non-Teslas.

At what price, I wonder?

An EV for local journeys is a much more sensible proposition IF you are fortunate enough to be able to install a home charger or do so few miles that you can charge at home with a “granny charger” (ie 16amp) and your domestic wiring is robust enough. Our little

A "granny" charger isn't 16A. It will only take 10A from a 13A socket.

So basically your car will charge at about 10mph. That's probably fine for most people, most of the time.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Why don't they just fit an alternator to the wheels and charge it that way?

 

[tonybvi]

At what price, I wonder?

A "granny" charger isn't 16A. It will only take 10A from a 13A socket.

So basically your car will charge at about 10mph. That's probably fine for most people, most of the time.

At the moment although the price varies from supercharger location to supercharger location the cost for Tesla’s is hovering around the 40 to 45p mark and for those locations which are open for other makes their charge is around 60p (which is still cheaper than a lot of rapids). As a non-Tesla owner you can also pay a monthly fee to have access at Tesla rates.
Mea culpa re the 16A figure!

 

[CriftinsCampers]

Here’s one for the EV sceptic to enjoy.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[Geek]

At the moment although the price varies from supercharger location to supercharger location the cost for Tesla’s is hovering around the 40 to 45p mark and for those locations which are open for other makes their charge is around 60p (which is still cheaper than a lot of rapids). As a non-Tesla owner you can also pay a monthly fee to have access at Tesla rates.
Mea culpa re the 16A figure!

Thanks. That's interesting. The going rate for fast charging seems to be between 65p and 80p in most places, so 40p or even 60p don't sound so bad. However, diesel is under 18p per KWh.

 

[trevskoda]

When i can buy one for £10 and get 15 years driving out of it i may consider it.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

 

[GeoffL]

Thanks. That's interesting. The going rate for fast charging seems to be between 65p and 80p in most places, so 40p or even 60p don't sound so bad. However, diesel is under 18p per KWh.

Interesting comparison. That said, I suspect that most drivers will be interested in how much it costs them per mile rather than the cost per unit of energy input -- and diesel ICEs are nowhere near 100% efficient.
The calculations are fairly straightforward:
For ICEVs, to 2 decimal places there are 4.55 litres in a gallon. So the cost per mile is: (price per litre * 4.55)/miles per gallon. For example, if diesel costs £1.50/litre and your car returns 60mpg, the cost per mile is (£1.50 * 4.55)/60 = 11.4p/mile

For EVs, the cost per mile is the price per kWh/miles per kWh. For example, an EV returning 3.5 miles/kWh, that cost is 2p per mile for the most heavily subsidised home-charging rate I've seen quoted (i.e. 7p/kWh) and 17.1p/mile at 60p/kWh rapid chargers.

Of course, the costs per mile above are just examples, and you need to 'plug in' the values appropriate to whatever vehicle you're considering...

 

[trevskoda]

Since when did any car do 60mpg, 30/40 if lucky on a good day with a tail wind.

 

[tonybvi]

Thanks. That's interesting. The going rate for fast charging seems to be between 65p and 80p in most places, so 40p or even 60p don't sound so bad. However, diesel is under 18p per KWh.

Interesting comparison. That said, I suspect that most drivers will be interested in how much it costs them per mile rather than the cost per unit of energy input -- and diesel ICEs are nowhere near 100% efficient.
The calculations are fairly straightforward:
For ICEVs, to 2 decimal places there are 4.55 litres in a gallon. So the cost per mile is: (price per litre * 4.55)/miles per gallon. For example, if diesel costs £1.50/litre and your car returns 60mpg, the cost per mile is (£1.50 * 4.55)/60 = 11.4p/mile

For EVs, the cost per mile is the price per kWh/miles per kWh. For example, an EV returning 3.5 miles/kWh, that cost is 2p per mile for the most heavily subsidised home-charging rate I've seen quoted (i.e. 7p/kWh) and 17.1p/mile at 60p/kWh rapid chargers.

Of course, the costs per mile above are just examples, and you need to 'plug in' the values appropriate to whatever vehicle you're considering...

You beat me to a similar reply. All that interests me is cost per mile and with two EV’s (1 doing 3 miles per kWh and the other doing 4 miles per kWh) with a cheap home charging rate of 4.5p/kWh and one car getting free supercharging I am quids in compared with diesel.

 

[Geek]

Since when did any car do 60mpg, 30/40 if lucky on a good day with a tail wind.

There again, very few EVs manage 3.5 miles per kWh.

60mph is easily possible. We recently had a hire car. I think it was a VW polo, it was petrol, anyway. I didn't drive it gently and it did just over 55mpg.