DVLA and oldie renewing license

[wildebus]

Thanks, I am aware of that but it is still worth mentioning, my GTM is 5200 which leaves me with 1700 for a trailer,

Am I right in recalling you downplated your motorhome to 3500Kg? If so, did the GTM reduce by the same amount at the time, or was it 5200 before the downplate?

 

[Tezza33]

Am I right in recalling you downplated your motorhome to 3500Kg? If so, did the GTM reduce by the same amount at the time, or was it 5200 before the downplate?

The GTM was 5200 when the revenue weight was 3400, I uprated up to 3700 years ago but the GTM stayed at 5200 so effectively I couldn't tow a trailer as heavy (if I was fully loaded of course), I have just downrated to 3500 as you say but the GTM stays the same at 5200.
So obviously (well, it is now) the GTM stays the same with any revenue weight change.

 

[wildebus]

The GTM was 5200 when the revenue weight was 3400, I uprated up to 3700 years ago but the GTM stayed at 5200 so effectively I couldn't tow a trailer as heavy (if I was fully loaded of course), I have just downrated to 3500 as you say but the GTM stays the same at 5200.
So obviously (well, it is now) the GTM stays the same with any revenue weight change.

Thanks.
I was curious having just done an uprate and a discussion with SVTech about what an appropriate towing weight should be (there was no converters VIN plate fitted showing the current towing weight and the ex-factory GTW =6000 (towing weight was 2500).
Post conversion by Autotrail there should really have been a plate fitted giving the GTW as 4750 (a towing weight of 1250 - a significant reduction)

With my 3850 uprate, I also got an uprate in the GTW/GTM to 5100 (so retaining the original towing weight). I suspect yours didn't go up as it was already pretty high (I actually had to check the tech spec details and contact Autotrail to find out the right original numbers for my vehicle)

 

[GeoffL]

Thanks.
I was curious having just done an uprate and a discussion with SVTech about what an appropriate towing weight should be (there was no converters VIN plate fitted showing the current towing weight and the ex-factory GTW =6000 (towing weight was 2500).
Post conversion by Autotrail there should really have been a plate fitted giving the GTW as 4750 (a towing weight of 1250 - a significant reduction)

With my 3850 uprate, I also got an uprate in the GTW/GTM to 5100 (so retaining the original towing weight). I suspect yours didn't go up as it was already pretty high (I actually had to check the tech spec details and contact Autotrail to find out the right original numbers for my vehicle)

FWIW, I thought that the max gross train weight was usually the maximum train weight at which a restart on a 12% gradient is possible. Towcar brakes don't come into the assessment because any trailer over 750kg must have its own brakes. However, structural strength of the towbar attachment points might be more restrictive in some cases.

FWIW, I too have an Autotrail (2001 Scout). Out of the factory and as originally plated, it had 3,850 kg MAM and 5,500 kg GTM. When a previous owner downrated it to 3,500 kg, it stayed at 5,500 kg GTM and SVTech restored the original factory ratings (copy of the rating plate, with VIN and certificate No. redacted, attached.)

 

[wildebus]

Is your Scout a Tag Axle? That looks like it would have been 5500 GTW. But the single Axle (implied by the SV tech Plate) version was only 5200 GTW - and a GVW of 3850 like your original Weight and the SvTech plate.
Looks like it may have been incorrectly plated by the converters unless Autotrail changed their specs just after the 2001 Scout was released?

That is quite possible as the numbers I have quoting above are from 2003. And that years data has the Cheyenne 635 (my model) is 3400 GVW and 5200 GTW.
However in 2008 the Cheyenne 635 was 3500 GVW but the GTW had dropped to 4750.


Considering the factory GTW was 6000, I don't really understand why a conversion should lower that GTW TBH. Not sure how it matters if the weight on the chassis is a motorhome box, sacks of plaster or pallettes of bricks?

 

[GeoffL]

Is your Scout a Tag Axle? That looks like it would have been 5500 GTW. But the single Axle (implied by the SV tech Plate) version was only 5200 GTW - and a GVW of 3850 like your original Weight and the SvTech plate.
Looks like it was incorrectly plated by the converters unless Autotrail changed their specs just after the 2001 Scout was released?

FWIW, my Scout is the van in my profile piccy. It's a single-rear-axle Al-ko chassis with a Fiat front end. The Fiat plate gives no weight details. Data on the Al-ko plate is the same as the SvTech certificate.

 

[wildebus]

FWIW, my Scout is the van in my profile piccy. It's a single-rear-axle Al-ko chassis with a Fiat front end. The Fiat plate gives no weight details. Data on the Al-ko plate is the same as the SvTech certificate.

Makes sense that there is no FIAT data as the alko was added by Autotrail.
My Cheyenne uses the Fiat Chassis hence why I have a FIAT plate.
As it was Autotrail who fitted the ALKO, it would be their data that would trump the original ALKO spec data, in the same way that the Autotrail numbers replaced the Fiat spec data numbers on mine (reducing 6000 to 4750)

For the weight info I am referring to, have a look at this Autotrail site - https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/brochures. The closest brochure to your 2001 motorhome is the 2003 brochure. That includes the 2003 Scout on the Alko chassis, both single and tag, plus the Scout on both the Mercedes bases.

 

[GeoffL]

Makes sense that there is no FIAT data as the alko was added by Autotrail.
My Cheyenne uses the Fiat Chassis hence why I have a FIAT plate.
As it was Autotrail who fitted the ALKO, it would be their data that would trump the original ALKO spec data, in the same way that the Autotrail numbers replaced the Fiat spec data numbers on mine (reducing 6000 to 4750)

For the weight info I am referring to, have a look at this Autotrail site - https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/brochures. The closest brochure to your 2001 motorhome is the 2003 brochure. That includes the 2003 Scout on the Alko chassis, both single and tag, plus the Scout on both the Mercedes bases.

That's interesting. Thankfully, the max axle loads are the same. Since I don't have a towbar, pragmatically, I don't need to worry about whether the 'correct' GTM is 5,200 or 5,500 kg. That said, since SvTech certified mine for 5,500 GTM in 2017 (albeit relying on the Alko plate), it's legal up to that!

 

[wildebus]

Seeing the difference in the specs on the Cheyenne made me look at the various brochures through the years and it is intriging...
In 2003 the 3400Kg GVW and 5200 GTW would seem to be the standard weight for the Fiat 15 (Light) Chassis, with a 3850 available if the Maxi Chassis was ordered.
It changed in 2007 - the year the Fiat Chassis changed. In 2007, the Cheyenne GVW went up to 3500 and the GTW to 6000 (matching my Fiat Plate which would explain why there is no Autotrail plate that superceeds it I would think. I called my Cheyenne a 2008 but it would have been built in 2007, just registered in 2008).

However in 2008 all the GTWs for every single Autotrail Motorhome dropped! The Cheyenne went from 6000 to 4750, which halved the allowance. For the Scout, the single-axle was 4250 GVW and 5500 GTW. There is not one Autotrail Motorhome in 2008 that has a permissible towing weight of more than 1250Kg (including Fiat, Fiat-Alko and Mercedes bases)
I wonder if the GTW Fiat provided when they brought out the new Ducato was overstated and re-evaluated once they had been in use for a while?

 

[GeoffL]

@wildebus wrote : "I wonder if the GTW Fiat provided when they brought out the new Ducato was overstated and re-evaluated once they had been in use for a while?"
FWIW, I suspect it could be a combination of factors. For example, even though the SvTech plate claims mine to be a 2.8 JTD, it's actually an idTD as the chassis-cab was built in 2000 and the JTD came in part way through 2001. According to Wikipedia, the 2007 engines changed and the new base engines have less power. As 2008 Autotrails would have been based on chassis built the previous year, I wonder if that had something to do with the reduction in GTM as less power would mean lower mass before restart on a 12% slope was no longer possible. ??
Edited to correct typo

 

[wildebus]

@wildebus wrote : "I wonder if the GTW Fiat provided when they brought out the new Ducato was overstated and re-evaluated once they had been in use for a while?"
FWIW, I suspect it could be a combination of factors. For example, even though the SvTech plate claims mine to be a 2.8 JTD, it's actually an idTD as the chassis-cab was built in 2000 and the JTD came in part way through 2001. According to Wikipedia, the 2007 engines changed and the new base engines have less power. As 2008 Autotrails would have been based on chassis built the previous year, I wonder if that had something to do with the reduction in GTM as less power would mean lower mass before restart on a 12% slope was no longer possible. ??
Edited to correct typo

Well ..... apparently the new 2.3L Engine in the new chassis was more powerful than the 2.8 JTD (130BHP vs 127BHP).
I have dropped an email to Autotrail (following up from my earlier email to them )

 

[GeoffL]

Well ..... apparently the new 2.3L Engine in the new chassis was more powerful than the 2.8 JTD (130BHP vs 127BHP).
I have dropped an email to Autotrail (following up from my earlier email to them )

This is according to Wikipedia (sorry!) The 2001 2.8 idTD is 90 kW @ 3,600 rpm with 285 Nm @ 1,800 rpm, while the base 2008 2.3 multijet is 88 kW @ 3,600 rpm with 320 Nm @ 2,000 rpm. Since torque (rather than power) is normally the limiting factor, it doesn't at first seem to make sense for the 2008 van to have a lower GTM. That said, first in my van is a crawler gear and on steep hills I can be stuck doing about 10 mph because there's too big a gap between first and second and the van would 'bog down' if I changed up! FWIW, traction is a bigger issue and the only time I've been unable to restart on a hill was because of wheel spin rather than lack of power.

 

[wildebus]

I'm using the numbers in Autotrails own brochures. Maybe Autotrail don't use the base 2.3 but an better 2.3? (for example, my Vauxhall Corsa is a 1.4L and Vauxhall have 3 different power outputs for the 1.4L in Corsas depending on the model)

 

[Molly 3]

Their blurb says £55 & probably Vat on top, what’s the going rate from the average GP?

I don't know just now used to be £20 for a signature

 

[Deleted member 6960]

You have to decide if you really want the C1 keeping it just for the sake of not losing it will be expensive medicals don't come cheap and you'll need one every 3 years

Medicals are around £50, So not too expensive.

 

[Deleted member 6960]

Medicals are around £50, So not too expensive.

Google, D4 Medicals near me.
Your GP will be the most expensive. The eye test is done at the medical, it is read the chart test. Blood pressure check, weight check and lots of health questions.
It really is no big deal.

 

[HurricaneSmith]

I decided to kick my grandfather's rights into touch. I was concerned that they might find something trivial that might one day stop rme driving anything at all.

Having passed the test all those years ago, I decided that I would make the decision when to stop.

 

[Ellendale]

Google, D4 Medicals near me.
Your GP will be the most expensive. The eye test is done at the medical, it is read the chart test. Blood pressure check, weight check and lots of health questions.
It really is no big deal.

Not knowing anything different I had my D4 Med done by my GP - £104! Because the practice doesn't do eye tests I went to SpecSavers (I've had a test there within the last 12 months). It cost £10, a quick check of my eyes and the optician completed and signed the form straight away.

 

[Ellendale]

UPDATE:
After sending 3 emails using the DVLA website contact form I finally received a non-machine reply stating that they could not answer my questions by using email and that I had to ring them - 0300 790 6806.
So I went around the roundabout again and this time I cheated by pressing "2" for "medical".
The call was answered within 2 mins and the guy informed me that my application had been referred to the DVLA Med Board who had sent a letter to my GP for further data. HURRAH! Over the past 9 weeks all I was seeking was confirmation that they had got my application and now I had it!
Now for the bad news;
DVLA had sent me a letter (not yet arrived) at the same time they had written to my GP to update me on my application. The info they wanted wasn't just for the C1 but also for driving a car.
The following day the letter arrived. The problem was they had sent their letter to my GP - who retired 6 months ago and they'd misspelt the address of the Practice.
Now for some good news;
After 20 mins waiting for the Practice to answer my call it transpires that ALL letters sent to the Practice are opened and reviewed and if they are about a patient then that info is passed to the current GP - sigh of relief until told my new GP is on holiday and may not be able to answer the letter prior to my licence expiring - no problem, I have Sect 88 of the RTA on my side!
It has various definitions but as long as you meet the criteria you can drive your current classes of vehicles whilst DVLA are drinking their tea, having a strike and thinking about completing your application.
Back to the bad news;
At the time of calling the Practice had either not received the DVLA letter or it had been received but not yet put on my med record/forwarded to my GP. I shall be ringing them again tomorrow - Monday - for an update.
And finally a bit of good news;
I rang my insurers - Admiral - and as long as my GP says I am ok to drive then my insurance is fully valid. What's more they don't need a letter from my GP.
Meanwhile, still waiting.........

 

[landrovereditor]

Age 70 I had a medical at my GP’s with the intention of keeping my C1 license. The doctor found I had a heart murmur so she was obligated to inform DVLA. They decided to review my case and after a rather worrying time the gave me a 3 year license but no C1. 4 years down the line I’ve just had remedial heart surgery so all is well.