'Eco-Worthy' lithium batteries

Sonar said:
Update. Seems they send out a 5 watt tiny solar panel as a gift. The battery he said arrived this morning.
A strange way to do business.
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Send a "gift" and then send the actual item if the buyer complains :)

you would think they would have said something like "was a freebie. battery arriving shortly. sorry for confusion" or similar?
 
Seems that is what they did saying there sorry they did not get back to him sooner.

Just seen his 280 amp eco worthy battery .
It’s quite large but looks like it will do the job. He paid £ 500. And has just ordered another or will do today asking now i want to order two myself with his order .
He will then pay less than 500 each I guess it’s a bargain.
In two minds what to do now.

I know there not heated but there in an insulated garage under a bunk bed.
 
That's pretty damn cheap TBF.
Personally I won't be concerned about heating when I switch to lithium.
1, I don't intend to camp during cold conditions.
2, I'd still be ok because the batteries are effectively 'indoors' anyway.
3, I'll make sure I have the ability limit the charge current by turning off the mains charger to the lithiums when on EHU and disable the B2B in case I do drive when the batteries are cold.
 
I don’t think they can get damaged because they will not charge when below zero. Well that is the way I read it.

The Victron B 2 B and the Victron smart charger also has a lot of protection .

Anyway they had a sale at 454 per 280 amp battery but that has ended.
Saying that they seem to be always open to an offer .
My friend now has 16 batteries that people want so far . So bulk will be cheaper he is down the boat club today trying to drum up some more interest .

The best person to ask would be member wildebus.
He may pop along later
 
Sonar said:
I don’t think they can get damaged because they will not charge when below zero. Well that is the way I read it.

The Victron B 2 B and the Victron smart charger also has a lot of protection .

Anyway they had a sale at 454 per 280 amp battery but that has ended.
Saying that they seem to be always open to an offer .
My friend now has 16 batteries that people want so far . So bulk will be cheaper he is down the boat club today trying to drum up some more interest .

The best person to ask would be member wildebus.
He may pop along later
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Yes, the general rule is don't charge below zero, if you want a more nuanced explanation see post 39.
 
merl said:
Yes, the general rule is don't charge below zero, if you want a more nuanced explanation see post 39.
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Battery specific, mine can charge down to -5 but reduced C rate. Last weekend saw a Roamer that can charge at -30 and fast charge at the
 
Sonar said:
I don’t think they can get damaged because they will not charge when below zero. Well that is the way I read it.

The Victron B 2 B and the Victron smart charger also has a lot of protection .

Anyway they had a sale at 454 per 280 amp battery but that has ended.
Saying that they seem to be always open to an offer .
My friend now has 16 batteries that people want so far . So bulk will be cheaper he is down the boat club today trying to drum up some more interest .

The best person to ask would be member wildebus.
He may pop along later
Click to expand...
On eBay they went up to £549.99
But back down to £ 520.

Up and down all the time .

The price includes vat and delivery
 
nabsim said:
Battery specific, mine can charge down to -5 but reduced C rate. Last weekend saw a Roamer that can charge at -30 and fast charge at the
Click to expand...
Charging below zero at a reduced C rate will actually apply to virtually all lifepo4 but the makers/distributors stick with the 'dont charge below zero because it's an easier rule to follow. As I've mentioned before the battery's state of charge should also be taken into consideration so it gets very complicated, I've got an illustrative graph showing temp/ current and how it affects charging somewhere, I'll try and dig it out and post it. The exception are high current lifepo4 which we don't usually see in the leisure market where we see batteries aimed at maximum Ah in a given space, ie energy density. Apparently it's the addition of small quantities of Yttrium on the battery's anode plate that enable high current charging at low temps, often used in EV batteries.
 
I think you can get too complex when setting up electrics on a motorhome/campervan (funny for me to say that, I know, but I try to rein things in and get as close to the KISS principle as possible while still giving nice features and functionality).
For me, that means going for a heated battery if viable. A couple of years ago, batteries with heaters and with bluetooth were far more expensive than those without, but currently while there is still a difference of course, it is much less and a heated battery with bluetooth connectivity is cheaper than a battery without was just 12 months ago.

As it happens, I am thinking of changing my Lithiums as you can now get them with Victron Cerbo Connectivity which might be interesting for the geek aspect (definately not on the KISS path, but could be fun :) ).
so if anyone fancies some quality 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithiums with integral Heaters and Bluetooth battery monitors and just 150 cycles out of the 3,000 quoted, let me know :)
Another handy feature with good batteries is how they can communicate with each other as well as internally in their BMS. These two batteries remain perfectly balanced and in sync
polarmaxpair-1.png
(the difference in remaining time is due to capturing screenshots a minute apart and a change in current from solar).
 
merl said:
Charging below zero at a reduced C rate will actually apply to virtually all lifepo4 but the makers/distributors stick with the 'dont charge below zero because it's an easier rule to follow. As I've mentioned before the battery's state of charge should also be taken into consideration so it gets very complicated, I've got an illustrative graph showing temp/ current and how it affects charging somewhere, I'll try and dig it out and post it. The exception are high current lifepo4 which we don't usually see in the leisure market where we see batteries aimed at maximum Ah in a given space, ie energy density. Apparently it's the addition of small quantities of Yttrium on the battery's anode plate that enable high current charging at low temps, often used in EV batteries.
Click to expand...
So, for anyone interested here's that chart I mentioned above from a research paper showing degradation of lifepo4 when charging at -15 DegC.
Not only is it current dependant but also very SOC dependant too. I've drawn a rough freehand line, really you should keep to the lower left of that in the very dark blue area.
What's interesting (to me anyway!) is that at such a low temp of minus 15 you can clearly see that a 0.1C charge rate (10A for each 100Ah battery) is permissible but only up to about 40% SOC, after that it tapers off and you shouldn't charge at ANY current above 75% SOC.
I've tried to get my head around the degradation factor but the mathematical concept of 'Norms' is something I simply just cant grasp, so if anyone with a maths degree can explain in simple terms just how degrading 'going into the red' is I'd be willing to give it a go :sleep:
soc vs charge current at -15degC.jpg
 
Sonar said:
Will the Victron battery charger still allow charging below 0 degrees. Or is that something that can be sorted out in the Victron settings
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Typically the Victron controllers when set to a pre-set Lithium Profile will have a charger disconnect set at 5 degrees C. This is the default for Lithium and can be either disabled or changed to another value. Last one I configured, IIRC I changed it from 5C to -20C out of curiosity (the batteries it was charging had internal heaters).

If your batteries have a known working low-temp disconnect, there is an argument to disable the chargers low temp disable. Although the batteries won't charge, that charger power can be used instead of battery power.
 
Just reading post about below 0 degrees may damage the batteries

No went for unheated batteries. Nothing to do with price just don’t think I will be using it much below zero. However as you say it settings so I will contact you when I get that far hopefully in a couple of days
Health permitting
 
wildebus said:
I think you can get too complex when setting up electrics on a motorhome/campervan (funny for me to say that, I know, but I try to rein things in and get as close to the KISS principle as possible while still giving nice features and functionality).
For me, that means going for a heated battery if viable. A couple of years ago, batteries with heaters and with bluetooth were far more expensive than those without, but currently while there is still a difference of course, it is much less and a heated battery with bluetooth connectivity is cheaper than a battery without was just 12 months ago.

As it happens, I am thinking of changing my Lithiums as you can now get them with Victron Cerbo Connectivity which might be interesting for the geek aspect (definately not on the KISS path, but could be fun :) ).
so if anyone fancies some quality 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithiums with integral Heaters and Bluetooth battery monitors and just 150 cycles out of the 3,000 quoted, let me know :)
Another handy feature with good batteries is how they can communicate with each other as well as internally in their BMS. These two batteries remain perfectly balanced and in sync
View attachment 73238
(the difference in remaining time is due to capturing screenshots a minute apart and a change in current from solar).
Click to expand...
Were thinking of upgrading our autotrail batteries so could be interested in your batteries how much are you asking?
 
Steveandjulie said:
Were thinking of upgrading our autotrail batteries so could be interested in your batteries how much are you asking?
Click to expand...
£250 each. Bearing in mind these are top quality batteries with Bluetooth BMS Monitoring and Integral Heaters with just 152 & 156 cycles used and under warranty until sometime in the 2030's.

polarmaxpair-2.png
 
The latest. On the eco worthy batteries seems Ian has managed to get a lot of orders and now eco worthy are sorting out a deal for him
The bulk of the batteries being 280 Amp .

Must collect from the warehouse is one of the conditions .
Should know today or tomorrow on a final price ..for each one .
 
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